Welcome to Fractal Forums

Hi all, the Mutatorkammer Project is a complex number evaluator, for generating 2d images, due to the fact that it is using complex numbers also iterative functions or mandelbrot like fractals can be easily evolved. If i say evolved i mean it, a genetic mutation/recombination mode as suggestet by Karl Sims, is included. There have been many changes since the last version, i would be glad if you could check it out, and tell me any opinion about the project, beta testers are also welcome and suggestions on how to improve this program. later on the formulas generated by this program they can be used in the other Fractal program i am currently writing on, The "FractAlter" project, wich allow to influence the whole iteration sequence, an export for ultrafractal is also planned, and last but not least, a high speed GLSL version is planned for next year ...

grab a copy here:
http://download.verpicktewg.de/?filename=fractalmovies/Mutatorkammer_Beta1.zip

Thanks for the updated status and availability of the download.  Have just retrieved it and will give it a try very soon.

my usual:

MUTATORKAMMER caused an exception 10H in module MUTATORKAMMER.EXE at 0167:00403ee3.
Registers:
EAX=0000137f CS=0167 EIP=00403ee3 EFLGS=00010206
EBX=0074fcd4 SS=016f ESP=0074fc1c EBP=0074fc28
ECX=40b7c400 DS=016f ESI=00884a70 FS=298f
EDX=004f3fa0 ES=016f EDI=00000001 GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
dc 4d f4 e8 2b d5 0b 00 83 f8 64 7e 05 6a 64 58
Stack dump:
00000000 00000000 000017c4 0074fc40 0040295e ffffffff 0074fcd4 0074fcd4 00884a70 00000001 0041f8ef 0074fcd4 00000000 00885590 0041f461 004f3fa0

...hmm, and you surely depacked the whole archive ? can you give some more information than a memory dump ?

Sent info in PM. I always unpack tidily :)

hmm, too bad, but i will search for a solution, the thing that bothers me is that it runs smoothly on most configurations .. ;)

I have had other programmers shake their heads and say that my Windows is too weird. Of course it varies. Every time I wipe out and reinstall Windows (necessary because I am so fond of trying things out LOL) it comes out with a different set of quirks. I always use an alternative shell, no browser integration, and a few basic hacks to make things go my way. Everything else is variable. I can be stubborn when I really want to run a program. Maybe the next semi-annual reinstall will suit it better. :)

hi all, i just want to inform that i have made some changes to generate more interesting functions,

download is the same
http://download.verpicktewg.de/?filename=fractalmovies/Mutatorkammer_Beta1.zip


i modified the way random functions are created, now they should appear more balanced ...

Thanks Trifox,

but there is a kind of * Movie * now on my PC ( WinXP User ) ...
Website will be opened, Website is not available ??? :-)))

Margit

Wow.

I just downloaded this.

Looks Interesting to say the least!

I have no clue where to start, so I guess I'll HAVE TO read the instructions...

I made a nifty image right away, but have no idea how I did it!

I'll post more coherent feedback after I play around for a day or three.

I need to start programming again...  it's been a long time!

well, at least it works for you, this program will be developped further, there are many things which do not work,
but also many things that actually do work, so, your suggestion is, i should start with a tutorial what this proggy is all about, and how to get a first image running and saving ... ok i am on it

I guess I should have been more explicit!

What I did was drag and drop the "New Formula" image from the library in to the "breeder" and alter a few parameters, then told it to "breed" and saw a few nice variations appear.

I played a bit doing unguided things, just experimenting.  Then realized I needed to study this in a little more detail.

I think this has a lot of potential and I like the interface.  I just need to spend a little more time with it to get a grip and start making images worthy of saving and posting! (I did not save my first test play...  I should have!)  (I'll save the next one )

I have frozen the program once already, so I'll try to be more restrained in my play!

But yes, I suppose a guide of some sort would be a big help.  Nothing too detailed, just a "getting started" paragraph would be enough.

Thanks for this!  I can never get enough of these things.

Peace.

great, you can inspect a formula further by double clicking on it, then you can open the tree view of the formula, each node of the tree view can also be dragged and dropped somewhere else, i am also working on a palette window, by now, there are 2 types of outcome of a formula,

first, a complex number, this number is mapped by now to red ( real part ) and green ( imaginary part )

second, a 3dimensional vector of complex numbers, the real parts of these numbers are directly mapped to RGB values

as mentioned before, i need help on designing the program, and documenting the program...

as i mentioned before, i am planning on joining the mutatorkammer projekt with the FractAlter Project, with export functionality to Ultrafractal ... ;)

but i think i will have to make some tutorials first ...  8)

First question!

Ummm...

How do I save an image?


That's a cropped screen shot, but it was made in Mutatorkammer!

I assume I am missing something obvious...

I never tried Ultra-Fractal...  But I grew up watching Ultraman!

hey, congratulations, you are the first to publish an image with my program, who is not me ... ;)

ehrm, saving images, is like dragging and dropping a formula to the library list window ....

So, steps to save a formula

bring the library window to the front

Click On "Base" to open the folder base

then, enter a name for your personal library file, in the right of the two text fields at the top of the library window

and click on "SAVE" this will create an empty library file, after you have done this, you can
drag&drop formulas to the empty space on the right of the treeview ...

you can change name of a formula by using F2 for editing, after that, click on "SAVE" again to save it all to disc

if you want to save an image you open a formula by double clicking on it, choose a resolution from the "Image" menu,
and use "Image->Save Image as..." for saving it to disc ....


-------

Have you experienced the combination of formulas ?

if you drag and drop a formula into the breedchamber grid, you apply the function After CombineMode, by default it is set to add, but you can use any 2-ary function ( like mul, div, ... ) to combine the existing formula with the dropped one .... beside of that, as you may have experienced, you can pan and scale the image ( by right clickking or SHIFT+left spanning a square to zoom into ) if you drag and drop a scaled/shifted image, the translation is saved in the formula itself....

and, have you encountered that you can change values of a formula in single edit mode(open with double click)?

OK, Problem Identified.

I had to maximize the Detail window before the menu options showed!  And I missed it appearing up top when the window opened!  (me dummy!)

They are insisible when the window opens in Windows XP SP2.

I can send a couple screenshots if you think it would help.

Meanwhile...

my last "Amateur" image from your program. It's just a few combinations and a small tweak, but it appeals to my Hippy Side!

After this I'm going to wait until I make one I'm Proud of!

I couldn't sleep last night (Women!) (Can't Sleep With Them, Can't Sleep Without Them!)

So...

Here's a quick gallery of Mutatorkamme Images!!

I forgot to resize this one, but have to leave!

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/sockratease/hip.png)

These link to larger images:

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/sockratease/ok2.jpg)
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/sockratease/ok.png (http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/sockratease/ok.png)

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/sockratease/box2.png)
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/sockratease/box.png (http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/sockratease/box.png)

And the detail in the center of this one NEEDS to be seen in the large image to be appreciated!

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/sockratease/weeee2.jpg)
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/sockratease/weeee.png (http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/sockratease/weeee.png)


Maybe now I can go to my employment and get some sleep!!

Peace.

hey, great! ::)

Come on Christian he's beating you to all the great pictures!

okeedokee, here i go, i made up 6 new images, this time with a formula library file for you to explore these formulas yourself,

some links:
Personal Image List (http://www.fractalmovies.com/index.php4?mode=list_dir&dir_ID=76)

Download Formula files (http://download.verpicktewg.de/?filename=fractalmovies/Example_Set_2.zip)

And the images themselves... a little big for the forum, but, inspired by recent talk about the julia z^1.5-0.263 fractal...

a coloful tree
(http://www.fractalmovies.com/media/images/user/5/colortree.jpg)

a golden one
(http://www.fractalmovies.com/media/images/user/5/golden.jpg)

julia with julias... ;)
(http://www.fractalmovies.com/media/images/user/5/juliazer.jpg)

a plain simple mandelbrot, never forget your (sqare)  roots!
(http://www.fractalmovies.com/media/images/user/5/mandelbrot_mutator1.jpg)

ehrm, random shit #1 ?
(http://www.fractalmovies.com/media/images/user/5/treebound2.jpg)

jeah, random crap #2
(http://www.fractalmovies.com/media/images/user/5/treebound.jpg)

thank you for watching, here you can get a formula file for Mutatorkammer, you use it by copying to
the LIBRARY folder where you installed Mutatorkammer
Download Formula files (http://download.verpicktewg.de/?filename=fractalmovies/Example_Set_2.zip)

Verry unique, can't say I've seen much like it before.
It's nice to see new stuff coming though.
I think the transforms should stick to being simple things only.
In future please also a screenshot.

a screenshot from the location in the formula ? or from what ? or from the used formula ? hehe, it is sometimes
does not even fit on one screen :) even not in text mode, look into the xml file ... ;)

at this time the location is transformed in to the formula. it produces a bit overhead, but i am working on a
version where the location is kept out of the formulas ....

Hey! I finally got what the program really needed - WindowsXP Pro. The 1.01GHz  processor and 384MB of RAM don't hurt either. (Fractal Explorer goes four times as fast as it used to.) I played with it this morning while I ate breakfast, saved a few pics and formulas. Definitely fun :D

hmm, so i have to check for other windows versions ... ;(

so, but i am very happy that you could make it running, be sure to get the latest version from the
site. :D :D ;D :D ;) :)

a new version is now online

http://download.verpicktewg.de/?filename=fractalmovies/Mutatorkammer_Beta1.zip

it features a easy color palette now, oversampling is now also an option, to produce more detailed and sharp images.

WEE!!

That Headache I had turned into a fever and I was down for a short time.

I was reading recent posts and saw this!

I'll be playing with a new toy over the Holiday.

Thanks!!

Trifox wrote:
>
>    a new version is now online
>    http://download.verpicktewg.de/?filename=fractalmovies/Mutatorkammer_Beta1.zip

Well, every time I try this link, I get the web page, but it has a message on it that says the following:

   "WARNING    Direct External download is not permitted anymore !  Consider clicking on banner ads."

Got the new one - I'll find a few minutes to play later. Mind you, I'm still "going steady" with Fractal Explorer, but it's a flexible relationship. ;) (I do NOT like UltraFractal)

Laura H. Haglund (Matera the Mad) wrote:
>
>    ....I'm still "going steady" with Fractal Explorer, but it's a flexible relationship. ;)
>   (I do NOT like UltraFractal)

UltraFractal is capable of many things, especially since it is basically a graphic image editor that can do fractals (though not all types of fractals).  The program has never decided whether it wants to be a fractal generator or another Photoshop type application (too bad people have to write their own "plugins", instead of being able to import them).

I have seen many devoted users brag about the amount of downloads for this program, but they fail to mention that the ratio of actual Users to the number of Downloads is something like 1:40.  And the constant charging of a fee for every new released version weighs heavy on the possible new users, especially when something like the FREE ChaosPro (http://www.chaospro.de/) can use UF files.

WOW!

EitherI'm  getting better, or this version is FAR easier to control!


The Infinite Princess!

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/sockratease/infinite1b.png)

Bigger:  http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/sockratease/infinite1a.png

Biggest:  http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/sockratease/infinite1.png


I have some VERY disturbing distortions too of that image too.  Almost Horror Movie stuff!

And some traditional Fractal stuff I'm waiting to post until I get some more special ones!

Hippy Holidaze!

I tamed it a bit!




(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/sockratease/inf110.png)

Bigger:  http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/sockratease/inf110big.jpg

hey, cool you still try this program out ... in the meanwhile i am nearly finished with a complete relaunch of my website

it now features a comfortable gallery, with comment functionality ...

you can check it out here:

http://www.fractalmovies.com

Hi all, i am proud to announce the release of Mutatorkammer Beta 2

New Features:

 Animation
 Image Loading Button
 Workspaces
 IFS Flame Fractals

grab the latest version (0.371)  here (http://fractalmovies.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=21&func=fileinfo&id=86)

More Information can be found here (http://fractalmovies.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=30&Itemid=20)

HEAVY Update. this time it is version 0.4, featuring:
 Full Palette Support
 Apophysis Flame Import,
 Apophysis Palette Import
 A Lot New Formulas

get the lates6 version ( 0.41 ) of Mutatorkammer (http://fractalmovies.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=21&func=fileinfo&id=86)

Here is a example video, the workspace is included as example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au-MOyY3uK4

 ;D

The image loading button is gone from this latest version!  But the new version seems to handle images better...

I like the way they start off colored properly and I dont need to generate colors to add!

Speaking of colors...

Nice Pallatte bar.  I need to figure it out now.

oh, now that you mention it, the image button is still there, but because i added the gamma
control it has moved down to the bottom of the window  :(
it is just a thin line now, but it still is working!
will be fixed!

Latest update 0.45:

- New Formula SUPER - Implementation of Super Shaper Formula (http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke/surfaces_curves/supershape/)
- New Formul Alternating Fractals (http://fractalmovies.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31) - See Alternating Workspace for Example
- Bugfixes - Image Load Button Now visible again !
- possibility to exclude parameters from random
- import of image sequences as movies

Download Version 0.45[url] (http://fractalmovies.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=21&func=fileinfo&id=86)

Hi all,

i am happy to present you the 2d Voronoi Palette, used to map complex numbers to colors, it can be used as a 1 dimensional palette as you are used to, but
it easily extends to 2d if you move keypoints around, check it out

a gallery showing different colorings of the same formula
http://fractalmovies.com/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=3&g2_itemId=672

direct voronoi coloring
(http://www.fractalmovies.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=676&g2_serialNumber=2&g2_GALLERYSID=b62b3fe7f08da7e35cfda7fd18f05857)
handkerchief color transform
(http://www.fractalmovies.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=698&g2_serialNumber=2&g2_GALLERYSID=b62b3fe7f08da7e35cfda7fd18f05857)
horseshoe color transform
(http://www.fractalmovies.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=704&g2_serialNumber=2&g2_GALLERYSID=b62b3fe7f08da7e35cfda7fd18f05857)

Christian Kleinhuis (Trifox) wrote:
>
>    i am happy to present you the 2d Voronoi Palette, used to map complex
>    numbers to colors, it can be used as a 1 dimensional palette as you are
>    used to, but it easily extends to 2d if you move keypoints around....

Very nice examples of these coloring methods.  I believe my favorite is the "direct voronoi coloring".     :)

and here we go with the latest download

including the voronoi 2d palette !
Mutatorkammer version 0.6 (http://fractalmovies.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=21&func=fileinfo&id=94)

a link to the gallery made with the latest version:
http://fractalmovies.com/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=3&g2_itemId=672



planned Milestones
0.65 Extend voronoi region to infinity ( meaning that the voronoi graph you create supports an range for real AND imaginary parts from -infinity to +infinity)
Include Layer Editor in v0.7
Include Formula Editor in v0.8
Web Sharing of Formulas in v0.9
Help/Documenttion and Examples in v1.0 ;)

small but effective update:

v0.62 Direct Palette Update, without Re-Rendering the Formula
Download (http://fractalmovies.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=21&func=fileinfo&id=94)

http://fractalmovies.com/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=3&g2_itemId=756
(http://www.fractalmovies.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=758&g2_serialNumber=2&g2_GALLERYSID=7864e27f64670785cd736b9f7088c1cd)
http://fractalmovies.com/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=3&g2_itemId=753
(http://www.fractalmovies.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=755&g2_serialNumber=2&g2_GALLERYSID=7864e27f64670785cd736b9f7088c1cd)

Finally got around to giving the latest MutatorKammer v0-61 download a trial run.  And right off the bat got some interesting images.  Here is one of those:

(http://www.Nahee.com/Fractals/MutatorKammer/Images/Trial-002.jpg)
The direct link to the others is http://www.Nahee.com/Fractals/MutatorKammer/Images/ (http://www.Nahee.com/Fractals/MutatorKammer/Images/)

built in fractal formulas: NOVA,BARNSLEY1,BARNSLEY2,BARNSLEY3,NEWTON,SPIDER,PHOENIX,MAGNET1,MAGNET2,MANOWAR,LAMBDA

added the option to normalize the result,
added a tone mapping option

the latest version ios 0.64 :)
http://fractalmovies.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=21&func=fileinfo&id=94

hey, i thought i inform you about the very nice gallery hosted by GFWorld, containing some interesting images made with mutatorkammer

http://www.graphicandfractalworld.com/Mut2.htm :)

a new version is ready for download.

 ;D :D ;) :) 8) ;D

-full MultiThreading support
-speed improvements
-new fractal types added

grab your version here:

http://fractalmovies.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=21&func=fileinfo&id=96

as i said i could need MUCH help on improving the program, mainly writing documentation and provide example formulas, if you want, sent me yours Wink

i know this program is far from being finished, now i have the threaded version running, i have to work out the image properties - size/palette/tile/oversample and stuff

some words what this program makes it different from other fractal programs:

-generate seamless tileable textures with a single click

-There are some built in fractal formulas ( 15 ) but, it also includes a function to iterate another function, so new fractal types really evolve !

-beside of that, alternating fractals are also possible, alternating fractals is a method - i believe - which is truly unique, i do not know another fractal program which supports alternating fractals, here is a little text describing what an alternating fractal is
http://fractalmovies.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31

so to say, basically it is alternating some fractal formulas each iteration step, there exist some ultrafractal formulas which behave like this, but i am using a generic approach, so you can combine different fractal types at ease, see "Alternating Fractals" in the library ...

- 2d Voronoi Color Palette - this is rather experimental, but unique also, a complex number is a 2component vector, the 2d palette maps each combination of real/imaginary part to a color

thx for reading

I haven't been around much lately, but your program caught my attention. It looks wonderful. Very promising. I'm going to download it now...

Titia

Titia van Beugen wrote:
>
>    I haven't been around much lately, but your program caught
>    my attention.  It looks wonderful.  Very promising.  I'm going
>    to download it now...

Hey there, Titia!!  :)

I think you will enjoy some of the features and what may be produced with it.  Christian has put a lot of work into getting to this current level.

Look forward to seeing any unique images you create from the program.
 

Well, life is still too busy to be Very active here, but I saw a new Mutatorkammer and Had to try it!

Umm...  A couple bugs to report:

The Crossover Button is not working on this new version, and when closing I get an error message stating "Couldn't Terminate Thread (Error 6: The Handle is Invalid)"

I hope that helps.

After I get this home repair nightmare behind me, I'll be more active again!

>>The Crossover Button is not working on this new version,

WHAT? i will check it out ...

>and when closing I get an error message stating "Couldn't Terminate Thread (Error 6: The Handle is Invalid)"

this bug is known by me, i will check that also, but i have not yet figured out what causes this error ...


beside of that, please have a look to GFWorld's mutatorkammer gallery
http://www.graphicandfractalworld.com/Mut3.htm
\i like that GFWorld has put some work into it, and used the program in its current state

greets
ck

ok, v0.643 now fixes both bugs above mentioned !
http://fractalmovies.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=21&func=fileinfo&id=96

@titia please give it another try if you have gotten the 'CROSSOVER' bugged version, the crossover button can be much fun!

Hey!

Fast Work!!

Thanks.

I have another "Bug" to report...

It's in the image feature.

In the previous release an early problem with the "Brightness and Contrast" of the image file was fixed.  In the first release, images appeared pale when loaded, then they began to show up "Normal" in the last version.

Now they are "Pale" again.  Is this in the Gamma Setting?

I Love the upgrades on this program...  It just keeps getting better!

I am looking forward to the next release.

hmm, if you do NOT want the imnages to look pale, you should set the min value slider in the global options to "0" instead of "-1"
this should fix it ...

I just tried it and it worked!

I mistakenly assumed it was a "Gamma" setting, as a corresponding effect happens with the gamma setting on Chaoscope!

This was apparently Not a bug after all!  I was just tweaking the wrong parameter!

Thanks Again.

I'll try to write something for your documentation soon...  I keep saying that and getting distracted.

I apologize!

This time for sure.

Peace.

v0.644 .map file import
http://fractalmovies.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=21&func=fileinfo&id=96

v0.646 Modified Random Function, functions without $PIXEL get thrown away
           ITERATIVE Functions without $Z or $LASTZ also
           + SEC COSEC ASEC ACOSEC Complex Trigonometric functions
http://fractalmovies.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=21&func=fileinfo&id=96

v0.648
           :P ULTRA - Function to iterate, with inside and outside function 
           8) FIXED severe MEMORY LEAK , concerning oversampling memory
           ;) improved palette grabbers
           :D Rotation of Image now available

http://fractalmovies.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=21&func=fileinfo&id=96
some example renderings with latest version, improved random generator for formulas:

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/50042728/
(http://tn3-2.deviantart.com/fs13/300W/f/2007/062/1/7/Sloopy_Buddhy_by_trifox77.jpg)
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/50156948/
(http://tn3-2.deviantart.com/fs15/300W/f/2007/063/a/5/Triankle_by_trifox77.jpg)
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/50159215/
(http://tn3-1.deviantart.com/fs15/300W/f/2007/063/4/e/Lionhead_by_trifox77.jpg)

i must do something to attract more people to my program, now that the 2d part is nearly finished
i am evolving it to the next generation: 3d!

you might be interrested in some 3d features i am currently implementing, these 3d features will take
some time to implement into the program(v0.7) BUT, here is a little preview of them:

Heightmap rendering

Additional Color Palettes for Alpha and Height Map, so every color gets a unique height !

i am using opengl to render this heightmap

this is the source map image
(http://www.fractalmovies.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=847&g2_serialNumber=1)

and this is the 3d rendering made out of it ... it seems a bit disturbing with all the black areas outside
of it, but these areas will get rendered also, so that this nasty square is not visible anymore!!!11111eleven!

lights will also be included, about the shadows i am not quite sure
clearly there must be a blur function, this will also be an option ;)
(http://www.fractalmovies.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=845&g2_serialNumber=2)

beside of that i am working on a quaternion like rendering method, basically
the slices of the quaternion are the frames  from an animation, the alpha value is needed here,
so, if you make an animation in Mutatorkammer, you are making a 3d object, but, this feature will take a little longer ;)

here is an example of a wider range of rendering:
you can find bigger sized versions of the images here:

http://fractalmovies.com/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=3&g2_itemId=841&g2_highlightId=851

the 2d map
(http://www.fractalmovies.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=849&g2_serialNumber=1)

and the wider area rendering:

the map you see above is in the center of the image, no smoothing
http://fractalmovies.com/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=3&g2_itemId=851&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
(http://www.fractalmovies.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=853&g2_serialNumber=2)

and another one:
(http://www.fractalmovies.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=857&g2_serialNumber=1)

and the resulting 3d view - with smoothing
http://fractalmovies.com/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=3&g2_itemId=854&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
(http://www.fractalmovies.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=856&g2_serialNumber=2)

it'd be neat if you could take advantage of the fact that you're not just rendering any old heightmap, but something you can evaluate to any desired accuracy...

break a big heightmap into rectangular patches (recursively in a quadtree) and cache their heighfield contents. when a leaf node becomes too big in screenspace you split it, generating the fractal data necessary and updating the tree. spinning around with the mouse with such a caching scheme might suck (depending on how much memory you use and how you manage the cache), but with some work you ought to be able to zoom in "infinitely".

oh my god, Continuous Levels of Detail for Height Fields is a pain in the ass programming ;)

but you are right, patches closer to the viewer should be rendered at a finer resolution, i was just playing around
today, next thing will be the generation of normals for lighting (uargh i do not like 3d because 3 dimensions make
everything sooooooooooo complicated )  ... ;) as mentioned above, the shadow calculation will take some more time

i am thinking about a RENDER mode and a REALTIME mode, in the realtime mode, you would just see the displacement
mapped plane like in the first posting, when in RENDER mode, the black areas around the plane will get filled,


the thing with the zooming is more simple than you think, check out this movie
http://fractalmovies.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=21&func=fileinfo&id=11
i made 5 years ago, it is just a heightmap rendering of a 2d zoomed mandelbrot animation, but the
effect is like you are flying around, this is the way it would look like ;)

yeah, making the caching thing continuous would indeed be horrible. as for normals, that's fortunately really simple :) see eg. http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article2264.asp

btw i've also written a fractal heightmap renderer, with (real, area-light) soft shadows and reflections and all the rest of it, but it was quite slow even after some sse optimisation, so i kinda forgot about it. i still have some renders though: http://fractographer.com/wip/softshadows.png

lol,  thx :D too bad, it hasn't, but the current version features quite stable formula parsing and breeding, the 3d version will take some weeks until i release them to the public, it is a whole lot of properties i have to deal with ( eye pos, camera pos, light pos, fog ... ) the pictures above just show my first steps, next i have to clean up my code a little bit for calculating the normals so that simple lighting effect are possible

i will keep you all informed here  8)

i am not after realtime at all, a fast preview mode for rendering, and if you do not move, the picture refines ...

yes, normals are simple, but either way, it has to be done ;) at this time i render the complete view with patches, so i have
to take care of the border patches for smoothing and normalization :(


hey, cool one, you are quite busy doing rendering stuff ;)

but i know that rendering of a decent 3d fractal image will take much time, but it s worth it, especially the ever increasing detail



have you rendered quaternions yet ?
as i told above, i am planing to render animations as quaternions ;)

basically each frame of an animation becomes a slice of the quaternion, perhaps i will render it slice by slice
or i will use some isocontouring algorithms to create real 3d objects out of them, for lighting and shadow
or i have to implement a whole volume rendering method for that (using alpha channel )
but i am quite unsure how and when i will do it ;)

i hope my friend aexion won't mind my pimping his deviantart address here: http://aexion.deviantart.com

he has an amazing gallery of 3d works, and plans to go commercial with his application. we're working together on it (there's a very natural work split) but things are kinda slow with Real World (tm) stuff atmo...


actually not :/ but i can probably do volume rendering of a quaternion julia in realtime, with or without gpu ;)


these things are fun for a while, but you're surely aware (since you wrote something like mutatorkammer) that the real excitement comes from the search and discovery aspect of fractals, not from what people have done before.

then again, people have done very interesting things: http://graphics.cs.uiuc.edu/~jch/papers/diss.pdf


anyway, good antialiased rendering of quaternion julias poses its own (very instructive) set of difficulties and is certainly worthwhile :D looking forward to the pix!

Great stuff there.  Will the new app do animations?

it's a bit early to be talking about big features like that, but since aex and i have both made animations before i don't see why not (eventually). besides, this thread is about your app ;) i linked aex's page because i think it's a good example of unique + interesting 3d fractals.

*excuse*

damn it, this is so fluffing sharp rendering,

this image just looks like an heightmap rendering, even if i dunno how to make it THAT SHARP !
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/49835302/

and here i am curios ...WHAT IS IT? it can't be just a heightmap
is it a quaternion ?!?!? what the heck is it ?
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/48727116/


if i see stuff like this, i am getting quite depressed ;)
but this is absolutely amazing stuff you make there, WOAH!

i qm realy kinda jealous about the sharp rendering WITH lightings and shadows ... so let's see how far i can make it ;)

hey, i wrote that i want to render animations as quaternions, not quaternions as animations !
i think this has never done before  ??? ??? ???

ok, to be clear, usual quaternion renderings is kinda rendering an animation of a certain formula ( slices ) ,
but those quaternion renders are to restricted on to a special formula with a special parameter,

with mutatorkammer i want to interpret any animation as the slices of a quaternion, and render it
but as i told i do not know how to make that sharp looking raytracing like results ...

i think i have to take a look at this http://graphics.cs.uiuc.edu/~jch/papers/diss.pdf

the bulk of my involvement with aexion is improving the rendering of his fractal creations and my own derivative works... although his 3d fractal renderer supports shadows where my one doesn't, the rendering quality and speed in my app is greatly improved. and i'm not really in a hurry to add shadows to that either (taking the xenodream approach), since you hit a brick wall with that method pretty quickly in terms of the realism you can attain ;) after i've gotten my various work and studying obligations in order (and aex has returned from visiting his family) work will begin on the next generation renderers for his commercial application. the 2d stuff i've been doing is the tip of a really big iceberg :D

oh and i should also say that besides the sophisticated sampling in my old 3d fractal renderer (produced for example http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/43955493/) aexion has been disadvantaged by his older computer.


i spent much of 2006 learning just a tiny fraction of aexion's fractal collection. he's been doing fractals for many many years and has tried basically everything... not only am i not in a position to blabber about his method in this instance (commercially i'm just the rendering monkey, he'll provide most of the "fractalness" and design the application), but that also puts me on the wrong foot for the millions of questions that will follow - i know because i have asked them myself! bear in mind there's a lot of talk about commercial stuff around these forums :-X


i have dedicated my life to high quality rendering, and must say i don't regret it :D

he used to use opengl at a pretty low level, and eventually/begrudgingly switched to pure c++ ;)

it's still quite slow, and not multithreaded: http://www.fractographer.com/propaganda/notmthreaded.png

thx for info, i will see what i can do about it ;)

you have 2 processors ?

 at this time only each window uses a thread to manage rendering its
content ;) i know i am not using threads properly i will try to improve them

a dualcore (amd 4400+ x2) cpu, yes.

a good+simple approach to threading is to have a <i>thread pool</i> where a bunch of created threads hang around (in a stopped state) to be given work. thread creation, sync and termination is expensive, so one tries to minimize that (just like opengl state setting); for your preview palette you can dish out work to the slave threads in the pool from a master thread, then WaitForMultipleObjects on them. more info: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms687055.aspx

good multithreading can be very difficult unfortunately :(

thank you, i surely have to rework it, at the moment i am happy that i do not block the whole system anymore ::)