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Author Topic: Bigger Newton's fractals  (Read 3363 times)
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gamma
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« on: November 29, 2008, 12:52:25 AM »

Hey everybody,

I took an educated look at the topic of Newton sets and came to realize that I can calculate complex polynomial AFTER I choose which number/coordinates (called roots) will be solutions. All those fractals are a bit similar to each other. Different kinds of equations, other than polynomials could have solutions all over the plane and we could be constructive with those points, in theory. Presumably, one fractal set would stretch far out and be more entertaining. I would like to know how to extend fractal sets by adding more equations so to speak.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2009, 01:56:57 AM by gamma » Logged
David Makin
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« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2008, 02:13:43 AM »

My formula for Ultra Fractal - mmf3.ufm:Newton by Roots - allows you to control the Newton produced by specifying the degree and roots of the polynomial to be solved - for the traditional Newton form switch to the Julia version.
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matsoljare
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« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2008, 03:46:16 PM »

On the subject, has anyone tried rendering a Newton formula with the real and imaginary components of the power varying with the x and y-axis?
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gamma
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« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2008, 06:22:33 PM »

I'm looking at it right now, its very advanced matter. COMPELLING :-)

I used simple NovaMandel and NovaJulia framework to insert new equations. I repeated the framework many times to test properties of new equations. On the internet there is a large Newton's fractal from the movie Biocursion.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/I0wGQaxGg_c&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/I0wGQaxGg_c&rel=1&fs=1&hd=1</a>
Its so big that it looks like a city. What I see different there is that its not limited to small neighborhood of the coordinate ZERO. Instead its wide and differs in parts. I don't expect that it is necessary to use polynomial as a function.

Sometimes I make an error when calculating the first derivative and the final result can not represent an accurate equation for Newton-Raphson method, but fractal can be drawn easily. I had some GOOD ones in that series of experiments!

Now you see, I constantly wonder what is the true, the pure and beautiful in one fractal. Or I wonder what is the science behind it, or something valuable in the background information. I can categorize shapes that way. For example - don't panic - I'd categorize your default display of fractals in the above mentioned formula file as fertile, but ugly - not very ugly, a little. When I zoom in there is an impression of overlapping shapes and pile-ups of dense colored stripes - that's one characteristic to call slightly unpleasant. Another category is - makes me almost angry - the diabolical, perverted exhibitions of yet another Mandelbrot set shape mutated and mean, lurking bellow the prominent outer features.

In contrast, NovaMandel type for (z^2-1)^2 contains Mandelbrot set and all shapes smoothly contoured around clean Mandelbrot shape. Dense areas (extreme up and down edges of a bell shape) are nicer. They insinuate almost a 3-dimensional curvature, a bell shape pointing to the left (or right depending from -+#pixel). To see more order - like Mandelbrot set is nice - in the category beautiful, but unfortunately it also fits a category - bring-me-something-new.

Rarely one complete fractal expands beyond certain limit. Some trigonometric functions can bring that. Mandelbrot and Julia sets fit into circle of radius 2. It reminds me of limited mathematics, because when all shapes stick to near coordinate zero I feel more bounded to basic principles instead of having fractal bricks for construction. I mean, fractal would appear in relation to few basic reasons over and over again. What if it is possible to add another sub shape with another function on one spot, adding a third one someplace else, or combine properties one into another one. Just a small problem there, NO ONE sees any mechanical parts of a fractal. Not a computer not a human (maybe few crazy professors).
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gamma
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« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2008, 10:16:49 PM »

I discovered among endless equations one that produces infinite Newton's fractal. Equation violates the rules for Newton's method so formally its not a Newton's fractal.

You can embed directly into NovaMandel formula file...
z = z - @relax * (z^@power - (@power-2)^z - 1) / (@power * z^(@power-1)-(@power-2)*z^(@power-3)) + #pixel

Parameters are 5+0 for start value and exponent.
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David Makin
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« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2008, 03:27:20 PM »

On the subject, has anyone tried rendering a Newton formula with the real and imaginary components of the power varying with the x and y-axis?

I don't think there's a formula for UF to do that for a Newton yet but you can for a Nova.

Select mmf5.ufm:Generic Switch Formula as the main formula then plug in mmf.ulb:Switch Nova instead of "Switch Standard" then enable the "Enable Advanced Settings" and set "Switch Value" to "Exponent".
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« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2009, 04:08:27 AM »

Does anyone know the actual equation that this Biocursion animation is using? It certainly looks like a Newton's method fractal ... Since Newton's method is based on finding roots of some equation (e.g. z^3-1=0) I am wondering what equation this one is finding roots for. Looks like something transcendental because there seem to be lots of roots, maybe sin(x)=0 or something like that?
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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2009, 08:27:09 AM »

After further consideration, I realize that you don't need a transcendental function in Newton's method to get an image with infinite extent, contrary to what gamma's impression was. Even applying Newton's method to the humble Z^3-1 equation will generate an image with infinite extent, although a rather boring one.

What's cool about the Biocursion muhtoombah video is that it has variation in the detail at high magnifications, which makes me think it's more like a Nova-type fractal, rather than a straight Newton's method.
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« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2009, 06:56:27 PM »

I believe that it would be impossible to CREATE brand new information with just a small equation. In other words, to get bigger fractal they must add more addends for example. I'm guessing that they combined sin(z), exp(z) and polynomials for Muhtoombah.

I am going well with experiments trying to get more complexity... but I am stuck in the mathematics. Its not that I don't know math. These programs for solving equations don't work! Formulas have to be simplified and it would be good to have mathematical meaning, like type or something.
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« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2009, 09:51:38 PM »

I agree you can't really create information here. I also agree they probably used a complicated polynomial.

But I think it's possible to get a lot of complexity from a very simple equation ... like z=z^+c. The necessary ingredient is feeding the result back into a nonlinear equation. That's why I suspect Muhtoombah was done with something more like the Nova equation, which is basically the relaxed Newton's method modified to include +c: x = x - k f(x)/f'(x) + c. A huge amount of complex, "interesting" (non-scale-invariant) detail can emerge from this form of iteration even with f(x)=x^3-1. I would expect a more complicated polymials would be even better.

A more complex polynomial may add more detail since it has more roots, but not necessarily the kind of detail that's interesting. For example, I recently posted a picture of Newton's method applied to sin(x). It's pretty, but totally scale-invariant, so it looks exactly the same at all magnifications as far as I can tell.

Conversely, to get a fractal with infinite extent, you don't necessarily need a very complicated function: the basic x^3-1 function will give an infinite-extent fractal under Newton's method. But again, as with sin(x), it's totally scale-invariant and kind of boring.

I'm not sure, but I think that in order to get details that change with magnification, like in the classic Mandelbrot set for z^2+c, you have to have something analogous to the "+c" part. It has at least been that way in my experience so far.

I'm looking forward to the results of your experiments....
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« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2009, 02:25:57 AM »

If you guys have Ultra Fractal then you might like to play with mmf3.ufm:Multivariable Newton.
It's basically the Newton formula (Mandelbrot and Julia modes) extended to a full generalised 2D system (x,y) rather than being restricted to "plain" complex numbers (using the Jacobians).
You can use the parameters to set the f(x,y)/g(x,y) system that is to be solved by the formula including adding in higher functions of x,y,xy etc.
From the default the formula is actually a divergent one because the "Iterate the Product" option is enabled which multiplies the (x,y) value (treated as complex) to give a running product on each iteration prior to evaluating the Newton formula.
Adding in trig functions in both f() and g() while using the "Iterate the Product" option can produce nice infinite tilings - examples using the formula (or a very similar one):

http://website.lineone.net/~dave_makin/fractal_art_4.html
http://website.lineone.net/~dave_makin/fractal_art_10.html
http://website.lineone.net/~dave_makin/fractal_art_13.html
http://website.lineone.net/~dave_makin/fractal_art_37.html
http://website.lineone.net/~dave_makin/fractal_art_42.html
http://website.lineone.net/~dave_makin/fractal_art_49.html
http://website.lineone.net/~dave_makin/fractal_art_56.html

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cKleinhuis
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« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2009, 04:41:26 AM »

 sweet music w00t !! w00t !! w00t !!

excellent images, especially 10,42 and 56, i have to play with that formula cheesy

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David Makin
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« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2009, 06:47:25 PM »

sweet music w00t !! w00t !! w00t !!

excellent images, especially 10,42 and 56, i have to play with that formula cheesy


Thanks very much.
Note that once you change from the default parameters so that the formula is no longer conforming to true complex calculations it can take a while to find something that doesn't just look ugly smiley
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« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2009, 06:56:11 PM »

I've only had a chance to take a very quick look but these images are awesome. I'll have to check out exactly what you've done mathematically and see if I can incorporate it into my software. I'll bet it is really s ... l ..... o .........w to render these due to the complexity of the calculations.
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« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2009, 12:18:22 AM »

Thanks.
As to render speed, it all depends what you do with the parameters smiley

For instance "Cabbaged" http://website.lineone.net/~dave_makin/fractal_art_10.html renders in under 23 seconds at 640*480 on this old P4HT even though it is 6 layers.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2009, 12:20:25 AM by David Makin » Logged

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