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Author Topic: Morse Thue Music Track Explained  (Read 800 times)
Description: put the key in the right door
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Mahmut
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« on: December 13, 2014, 12:07:28 PM »

I made this track with FL studio just to check it as an idea. No mixing

On this track, I experiment with Morse Thue sequence like this:

Generally my track is on 4/4

1st pattern:

I create a 3x osc and
I take 4 tones from a music scale that I like, whatever combination sounds good  wink , because they are on the same scale. and I give them numbers 0-3. I apply he four-valued Morse-Thue sequence which is
#0, 1, 2, 3, 1 ,2, 3, 0, # 2, 3, 0, 1, 3, 0, 1, 2, 1 ..

as it says here http://www.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/webdocs/mo/H/FractalSequences.pdf
Check the sequence until 8th number in the melody. At some times of the track I reverse the melody sequence so there is some symmetry, and then "play" with Getstalt method (google it).

pattern 2:
I choose 3 tones for bass the same way (on the scale but lower octave) and give them numbers 0-2 accordingly. Of course now I use the 3 valued Morse-Thue sequence which is:
 #0, 1,  2, 1,  2, 0,  2, 0,#    1, 1, 2, 0, 2, 0, 1, 0,   1...
i play them on 8/32 (1/4)

3d pattern beat 1:

I take the 3 valued Morse Thue (# 0, 1, 2, 1, 2, 0, 2, 0, 1, 1, 2, #    0, 2, 0, 1, 0, 1)  for the beat and I set
0: kick sound (period 2 time cells if it appears on the sequence, or silence on its time cell. Amazingly it appears every 2 or 4)
1: hat sound (period 1 or 2 or 3 or 5 or 7 time cells if it appears, kind of whenever we want to fill the gap between kick and snare)
2: snare sound (period 5 time cells if it appears)  
(1,2,3,5,8 Fibonaccis :> )
and place them on the right time cell but when the above sequence tells us ok. (is that cheating? not really it sounds kinda good)
a snare has a 5 time cells period but it sounds only when a 2 appears on the sequence
           0         1    2            1    2       0         2       0    1    1   2
so it is: kick _ hat snare, - - hat snare, kick -- snare, kick hat hat snare
that's all
- = pause of one time cell. The meter has 4 of them.

4th pattern hats:
I take the original Morse Thue sequence and 0= silence 1=hat until 8th number of the sequence and I liked it alot

5th pattern. 2nd melody:
/higher tone frequencies. I use the 3 valued MT sequence on some higher tones of the same scale as above.

I added some cuts on the patterns, to play with Getstalt method ( making the listener wait to hear something it repeats before) and I added some slide between the melody tones because is sweet for the style i like.   alien When you try to make art you have to stylize a little right?

Do you consider this track fractal music? I take fractal sequences parts and play with the pitch accordingly on scales and on some tempos, with rythms maybe created by such sequences, kinda human-effecting the track but in normal manners.. I like applying sequences on scale tones and rythms and mix. That's the only way I can find musical coherence by fractal series of numbers. Except general aesthetics, we have to know music theory and some scales too..

We have to like it and understand it somehow to be considered as music.

If you use fractal sequences and branching systems like L systems you can do beautiful patterns, like on 3d printed fractals, that just have visual beauty. Like applying a cylinder-like part of a 3d fractal, on a ring. That's all. When it's near the shapes we know, we tend to like it more. right?

I believe we have to apply sequences only to the "right places" and not on all tones. To listen to it you need to put the key in the right door.

Please check my other soundcloud music ideas below and tell me what you think smiley
https://soundcloud.com/dggrdsh/sets/neo-prama
https://soundcloud.com/dggrdsh/sets/old-style-shit
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 12:21:21 AM by Mahmut » Logged

« Last Edit: Today at 66:66:66 PM by Mahmut »
Mahmut
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« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2014, 12:45:38 PM »

I believe we have to apply sequences only to the "right places" and not on all tones. To listen to it you need to put the key in the right door.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2014, 01:18:34 PM by Mahmut » Logged

« Last Edit: Today at 66:66:66 PM by Mahmut »
eiffie
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« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2014, 05:38:39 PM »

I like it but then I have strange tastes. I have done some fractal music too and also find throwing out dissonant notes not only makes it easier to listen too but also is a easy way to add some interesting rhythm changes.
I will follow your progress.
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Mahmut
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« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2014, 01:03:42 AM »

Thank you a lot eiffie.. I tried an L -system melody ona a MT beat and it sounds nice. Can you send me some of your music? I couldn't find any in your soundcloud.

(I)A task I have to do now is to continue the above logic for more numbers of the sequences , double it or something so we can see their behaviour on a melody

I was wondering if numbers like π, or φ and e that are non periodic
i. translate somehow to fractals (not just as a seed to the known fractals)
ii. What's the difference between a non-periodic number sequence in music and a pseudorandom number generator sequence like LCG.

Is there any point applying these sequences in music or every sequence is ok if the tones are on the right scale?

Can somebody explain a little how L systems and MT are described by logic expressions?

I think it makes more sense to try and translate an existing track to fractal and not the opposite.
I've seen on vimeo some guys 3d printing the wave of a music track to cyclic nodes and create a necklace which depicted the wave of the track.

On 3d modelling you take a tree < 2 branches < 3 little branches < 5 tiny <8 tinier... fibonacciz
That can be applied on rythm. Exactly or over some logic
and create time spans 4/4 or 8/8 or whatever to play other things on these time spans WE created with this way.

But you can find some real trees like that: tree<2 branches <3 branches <9 little.. right? And still think that's a tree
its a general rule +-1 close like the average of the real. Of course we need it as a sequence but it's not the whole and only truth.
Maybe it describes some method. But if we think that humans are never exactly accurate, we can see unexpected things applying such sequences in real life.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 04:28:28 AM by Mahmut » Logged

« Last Edit: Today at 66:66:66 PM by Mahmut »
eiffie
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« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2014, 07:06:59 PM »

Here is an example of music built up like a fractal landscape (with nasty notes simply tossed out).
https://soundcloud.com/eiffie/minor-piano

Oops I see you listened to it. Both the piano and "fiddle" tunes are built the same way. It is a very simple method of layering a cycle of random note offsets on top of itself at increasing speeds. Then you keep a few of the layers to play harmonies, using a scale to filter the output.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 07:11:24 PM by eiffie » Logged
Mahmut
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« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2014, 12:42:27 PM »

...and also find throwing out dissonant notes not only makes it easier to listen too but also is a easy way to add some interesting rhythm changes.
I agree and I think we should have a specific logic way of tossing out the dissonant, or even better find a way that hops them, intentionaly or not.

The pitch, I believe, should follow sequences effect only on the tones of a scale, or harmonics.
That way it hops/ all "bad" sounds depending on the scale, or if you want, our music preferences as humans. I think scales are the sequences of pitch tones that mixing together affect us emotionally. I think that a nice aisthetical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesthetics) result is enough to limit the effect of the sequences that we experiment with on known scales. As long as we study sequences to create aisthetical/musical cohearence so we humans can call it music, from numbers.

The rythm, though, has differences. The beat, or sounds on time cells that express the rythm of the track, can play as we set it(3/4, 4/4, etc..). A sound of this beat hopping a bad point, means hopping a non rythmical, based on music theory, time cell.
So we should apply sequences only on the "right" time cell-points, or play with two variables: x: silence y:point, and apply sequences to that.

If I had to choose whichone between pitch and rythm would match with visual object information I would say:
1.the music colour of oscilator (the little freqs that create the sound of an instrument/s preferably): would be the chromosomes of each matterial point of the object.
2.notes (preferably on scales): the matterial members on x/y/z axis object points each time as, that shape the object like (pseudo-)3D [z volume y for the (relative to the octav) note-pitch, and x for octav or rythm sth like that]
3.rythm: the periods of the object points on a time/position 4D axis OR the x axis of the shape x/y/z above, so it creates places with more points and places with less shaping the object
iv.tempo: the speed of the periods of the movements of the theoretical object points on t or t/x axis
Do you agree? That's from my head but I tend to believe it. Maybe there is no relationship between them like that.

You can always give the responsibility of the construction/ logic of the sound on sequences (for example MT sequence on the pitch, then MT seq. on the scales it choses, then another MT choosing for you over that level), but always at the end you have to choose something, so the track its never the same after your decision, no matter how high-level is your setting and I like that  alien. That means we cannot create perfectly yet, we need more levels.

I think again, that we discovered/created the 1st lowest level of "audibly undestandable beauty" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beauty) we can observe, on chords and instruments (small and quick beautiful changes of freq we call colour).

Then the 2nd level on notes of harmony scales and rythm. (bigger and slower changes on freqs than the small ones but based on the 1st level we can observe). Maybe we should try "magnifying" the first level sequences here. Or minifying to the fist level frequencies, tactics we use on this one for music tracks. Im sure we have allready done such things, unintentionally or not.

The 3d level MAYbe Synthesis by me, and here we should find the audibly undestandable beauty maybe from sequences like the ones the last levels use. A relative to the 2nd lvl, 3d lvl note could be a track and you could make an album like an octave, or all albums of an artist on a kind of scale..   shocked .  Of course these are just thoughts. What do you think?
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 04:48:35 AM by Mahmut » Logged

« Last Edit: Today at 66:66:66 PM by Mahmut »
claude
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« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2014, 12:57:22 PM »

It is a very simple method of layering a cycle of random note offsets on top of itself at increasing speeds. Then you keep a few of the layers to play harmonies, using a scale to filter the output.

Why filter the output, instead of considering notes to already be in a scale (requires some modular arithmetic and small lookup table to convert to 12-tone MIDI note numbers)?

I wrote a little tune in 2006, it has a sequence of 48 numbers which are added to each other at different speed overlays to define the melody.  So the multi-resolution layering is kinda fractalish, but I did choose the numbers in the original sequence by hand (trial and error) to make it sound good.

https://archive.org/download/ClaudiusMaximus_-_Feed_Me_dia/ClaudiusMaximus_-_Theme_For_A_Platform_Game__PotatoData_Render_.ogg
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Mahmut
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« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2014, 02:42:33 PM »

Hehe good for a game indeed! I listened to other stuff of yours like that ClaudiusMaximus_-_Lambda_Beat_1.ogg and that ClaudiusMaximus_-_Dynamo_v2__excerpt_.ogg and I loved them!  grin I have already been in mathr site searching for stuff these days.. Good job man, generally. I will listen to your tracks for sure.
but I did choose the numbers in the original sequence by hand (trial and error) to make it sound good.
why didn't you just put all the notes of the same scale?
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« Last Edit: Today at 66:66:66 PM by Mahmut »
claude
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« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2014, 02:47:10 PM »

Thanks!

why didn't you just put all the notes of the same scale?

The notes in the sequence are in a 7-note scale, then after the final melody is calculated in that scale I convert to equal temperament MIDI notes:  I div/mod by 7 (to separate into octave and scale degree), then look up the degree in a table (length 7 with values in 0..11) and add to the octave multiplied by 12.
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eiffie
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« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2014, 07:03:57 PM »

Actually what I liked the most about throwing out notes (not in the scale) is it gave the music more rhythmic diversity in a way that seemed "natural". Maybe humans do something similar when they write music (without even knowing). Often music has small rifts played at different start notes and as a musician or composer you can either replace with a note that is in key or simply leave it out - I think we do a lot of the latter because it is easier.
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matsoljare
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« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2014, 10:41:22 PM »

Are you familiar with Per Nørgård's infinity series?
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Mahmut
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« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2014, 10:13:47 AM »

Are you familiar with Per Nørgård's infinity series?
No and that was exactly what I was searching for! cheesy Im trying to use it.
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« Last Edit: Today at 66:66:66 PM by Mahmut »
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