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Author Topic: Shapeways for 3D printed fractals  (Read 26580 times)
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bib
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« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2012, 04:14:15 PM »

Here is the most detailed bulb I managed to upload to Shapeways.

http://www.shapeways.com/model/804597/mbulb-8-coque-2x2-aa-pnm-inverted-repaired.html

Now it doesn't mean that it will print successfully, but at least it's passed the first tests...

Click on the blue cube to see it spinning around smiley

I removed some matter by substracting a smaller bulb. That is not very academic but my attemps at making thin walls all failed.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2012, 05:24:02 PM by bib » Logged

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« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2012, 04:31:02 PM »

What material has been used? I guess the fine details are very fragile?

It is some kind of plastic composit, not VERY fragile, but I wouldn't like to drop it on the floor...

I am very impressed by your voxel export bib especially the inside box!  A Beer Cup A Beer Cup A Beer Cup
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« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2012, 05:05:15 PM »

Here is the most detailed bulb I managed to upload to Shapeways.
Hard to see in the small preview, but it looks like you are wasting lots of polys for the subtraction bulb. At least this one could be radically polygon reduced, without a loss of quality.

I removed some matter by substracting a smaller bulb. That is not very academic but my attemps at making thin walls all failed.

I'd scale the initial bulb along the midpoint and bool it out. hexagon or blender should do for this quest.

Thanks a lot bib for kicking off that inspiring discussion. Lots of useful suggestions in here. I just downloaded fiji to start my own researches...
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« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2012, 05:18:40 PM »

Hard to see in the small preview, but it looks like you are wasting lots of polys for the subtraction bulb. At least this one could be radically polygon reduced, without a loss of quality.
That's right I'm wasting a lot of triangles because of this. On the other hand, there are 2 big benefits:
1 - you can see the inside (assuming you cut the bulb in half)
2 - the amount of matter is significantly reduced, thus the price (or I can make it much bigger for the same price as a small "full" version)

Quote
I'd scale the initial bulb along the midpoint and bool it out. hexagon or blender should do for this quest.

This is what I did, except that I did it directly in M3D in InvMax DE comb mode. Try it for yourself, you see that it is not very satisfactory. On the other hand, if I try to use the Outside+Inside mode (or an equivalent method using InvMax DE comb) then the walls are too thin (and even full of holes after it's been processed by Fiji). So I try to increase DE stop to make them thicker, at the expense of details...sadsad

Quote
Thanks a lot bib for kicking off that inspiring discussion. Lots of useful suggestions in here. I just downloaded fiji to start my own researches...
My pleasure. I am convinced that 3D printing is a technology that will explode in the coming years. I bet that by 2025-2030, it will be possible and affordable to have a 3D printer at home, like you have a regular printer. There are already kits to build your own below $3000. Imagine that instead of going to the shop and even ordering online, you will order anything directly on your 3D printer and print it directly at home.

« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 05:21:43 PM by bib » Logged

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« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2012, 05:30:12 PM »

I just downloaded fiji to start my own researches...

Please let us know your findings!

FYI, I am using this procedure:
http://www.fractalforums.com/tutorials/voxel-image-stack-and-then-what/msg39304/#msg39304
Except that step 4 is not necessary as far as my tests indicate. (It is useful only to avoid typing a filename in the next step) and step 6 is not necessary either, well you still have to wait a few seconds after the last progress bar has stopped and check when the OBJ file size stops to grow, before importing it into Meshlab.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 05:33:58 PM by bib » Logged

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« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2012, 05:53:40 PM »

Please let us know your findings!

For sure!
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« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2012, 03:30:25 PM »

Here is the best compromise I came up with so far: http://www.shapeways.com/model/805955/mandelbulb-8.html
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« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2012, 08:51:21 PM »

Ok, did some tests my self, but to start with the bad news: It seems, that the triangulation of the voxelstack itself avoids an efficient polygon reduction, at least within my first fiji models. I see no way so far, to solve that problem in fiji. Resampling or any other procedure I tried, didn't show a significant improvement. I prepared some snapshots to illustrate the problem.
first the rendering of my chosen cutout left the initial fiji output @4 million polygons - right an optimized one @1 million. as there are big cutting planes, which are easy to optimize, the amount of reduction is not significant for other models


next a closeup of a "boxish" area that shows, the layered structure. here is the probem - a plain or curved surface is no longer plain or curved. I think every optimization algorithm will fail here. left the raw fiji output - right the optimized version


last but not least an example, that it is possible to create optimizable meshes out of 3d Fractals. It shows the mesh of a quaternion created with a 10 year old (!) version of fractal zplot. As long as 3d printers reqire 3d meshes, this is the smartest implementation. reduction rates of 95% and above are possible here. left initial mesh - right optimized mesh
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 11:03:04 PM by taurus » Logged

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« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2012, 09:03:28 PM »

Thanks taurus. I found out that to get an optimized mesh in Meshlab (like in your last picture), it is important to UNcheck the Planar simplification checkbox in the Filter/Quadric Edge Collaspe Dimension window. But I still haven't found the ideal combination of parameters there and especially what technique to use based on the particular shapes I'm dealing with.
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« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2012, 10:33:48 PM »

Très cools ces fractales mais un peu cher !
Un julia 4D Quaternionesque serait un modèle intéressant (http://www.subblue.com/blog/2009/9/20/quaternion_julia) grin .
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« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2012, 01:08:29 PM »

Un julia 4D Quaternionesque serait un modèle intéressant (http://www.subblue.com/blog/2009/9/20/quaternion_julia) grin .

Hehe, I was thinking about reincarnating my old Quats for printing. I've got a collection of ready to print meshes on my 'puter - including a complete chess set. I think they are still interresting...


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« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2012, 05:21:14 PM »

I just received the 3D printed Mandelbulb from Shapeways and I'm quite positively surprised. The material is a white plastic which is rigid and slightly rough but shines a little in the light. Even if the level of detail on the model seemed quite low, as the object itself is quite small, there is no impression of lack of detail.

Here is a photo and the model. Sorry for the low quality, I will take a photo with a better camera.
http://www.shapeways.com/model/794123/mandelbulb.html

I will probably also order the more detailed version I made afterwards http://www.shapeways.com/model/805955/mandelbulb-8.html
And also all the others smiley



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« Last Edit: December 04, 2012, 05:27:25 PM by bib » Logged

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« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2012, 07:32:15 PM »

Hi!
Thanks for the important information,
I am also very keen on the creation of 3D models from fractals. Here are a couple of sites where you can post your model.
www.sculpteo.com
www.3dprintingmodel.com

With mandelbulb yet I have problems too, that's the best thing I did.
http://www.betak1992.de/tmp/2bulb.jpg

But other fractals go well.
http://www.sculpteo.com/embed/gallery/?click=order&designer=slon_ru

It would be good to add antialiansing function in voxelsteck render menu ... and do www.fractalshops.com!

br.






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« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2012, 08:05:04 PM »

Thanks slon_ru for the links. Have you tried to print your models? Any feedback? So far I am happy with Shapeways, but I might look at these too if they have better prices or different constraints, as the 1 million triangle limit is a real issue.

Some more sites to explore in this 3D printing sites comparison matrix: http://3dprinterhub.com/3d-printer-services
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 08:08:14 PM by bib » Logged

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« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2012, 12:43:11 AM »

Guys,

I am in contact with a rock star developer at Shapeways. He tells me he might be looking for top geeks to develop an interface to load an image stack directly in the core Shapeways software, which means to Mandelbulb3D users that the Fiji step would become irrelevant.

Any mad coder is interested to volunteer for this work on bleeding edge software and technology?

Cheers

bib
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