Logo by DsyneGrafix - Contribute your own Logo!

END OF AN ERA, FRACTALFORUMS.COM IS CONTINUED ON FRACTALFORUMS.ORG

it was a great time but no longer maintainable by c.Kleinhuis contact him for any data retrieval,
thanks and see you perhaps in 10 years again

this forum will stay online for reference
News: Check out the originating "3d Mandelbulb" thread here
 
*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register. October 14, 2019, 11:36:20 PM


Login with username, password and session length


The All New FractalForums is now in Public Beta Testing! Visit FractalForums.org and check it out!


Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Share this topic on DiggShare this topic on FacebookShare this topic on GoogleShare this topic on RedditShare this topic on StumbleUponShare this topic on Twitter
Author Topic: DOF with transparency (and reflections for that matter...)  (Read 1604 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Madman
Fractal Molossus
**
Posts: 678



« on: July 24, 2012, 11:27:51 PM »

Hi Jesse,

I'm experimenting with transparency and found an issue in the beta version, that is also an issue in version 1.8 (as far as I can tell, I seem to have a knack for asking questions that you have addressed in the readme file, but in this case I don't think so...). The problem is that if you apply DOF to a transparent object and increase Z2 to beyond the "see thru" plane, no DOF will be applied to the objects beyond this plane. I guess this is because transparency is a projection on the transparent plane and not actual transparency? The same applies to reflections but it seems our brain is better capable of rejecting incorrect reflection DOF then transparent DOF.

Somehow, I feel I'm asking for a lot (hence the reason why I put it in feature request and not in bug report  wink), but would it be possible to improve the DOF on reflections and transparency in some future release? That's all. Everything else is perfect in version 1.8!  cheesy  A Beer Cup A Beer Cup
Logged

All I want is a warm bed, a kind word and unlimited power (Ashleigh Brilliant)
Jesse
Download Section
Fractal Schemer
*
Posts: 1013


« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2012, 10:19:30 AM »

Hi Madman,

you are lucky, i did not mentioned this in the readme at all  wink

Short answer is: no
Long one is kind of: nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnooooooooooooooo....
(ok, i am a bit lazy)
... the addional depth of objects in reflections etc. are not stored somewhere, not enough mem for it.
You would have to trace many rays for a complete DoF effect and got only one focus point.
But that would be very, very, very, very slow.
Logged
taurus
Fractal Supremo
*****
Posts: 1175



profile.php?id=1339106810 @taurus_arts_66
WWW
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2012, 11:24:38 AM »

just to jesses relief - even some of the big renderes like advanced renderer of cinema 4d (at least the versions i got in touch with) can't do this.
i remember a project some jears ago, where i had to render several images with individual layers ,different settings and different objects visible just to "emulate" an appropriate effect. loads of (post)work and not much fun.  sad
Logged

when life offers you a lemon, get yourself some salt and tequila!
Madman
Fractal Molossus
**
Posts: 678



« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2012, 06:42:13 PM »

Thanks for the quick reply, Jesse. It took me a while to read the long answer, but I think I understand it now  wink. I was pretty sure I was asking something impossible, but, hey, asking never hurts, does it? I guess I'll have to wait until Moore's law has caught up a bit... or start experimenting with transparent 3D printing and then take a picture of it!
Logged

All I want is a warm bed, a kind word and unlimited power (Ashleigh Brilliant)
taurus
Fractal Supremo
*****
Posts: 1175



profile.php?id=1339106810 @taurus_arts_66
WWW
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2012, 08:13:49 PM »

just a bit of old school ray tracing out of c4d 11.5. btw, i'm not sure, if a blur through transparency would be realistic. even a real camera would recieve light from the transparent object, which is within the sharp zone...  huh?


* artificial.jpg (194.6 KB, 640x480 - viewed 449 times.)
Logged

when life offers you a lemon, get yourself some salt and tequila!
taurus
Fractal Supremo
*****
Posts: 1175



profile.php?id=1339106810 @taurus_arts_66
WWW
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2012, 10:25:26 PM »

dunno if this prooves anything, but i can't see any additional blur in the center drip...  wink
or maybe i didn't even understand the initial question. didn't give a try to recent versions of m3d...

(cropped and shortened from a wikimedia image)


* Dew.jpg (199.97 KB, 800x600 - viewed 383 times.)
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 10:29:29 PM by taurus66 » Logged

when life offers you a lemon, get yourself some salt and tequila!
Jesse
Download Section
Fractal Schemer
*
Posts: 1013


« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2012, 11:09:43 PM »

 wink

Of course, there are differences on case you have plane surfaces or lenses of glass, in case of the transparent box you should receive more or less the same blurring of behind scenes.  Only light travels slower through glass, maybe this leads to a virtual more length of lightray and even a bit more blur behind??? (Really not sure about this)

You can focus the background with a lense as you can blur it with a different shape of lense...

C4d is a really good program, as far as i can judge from results of users, maybe you can tell it to render even more correct, no clue.
Logged
Madman
Fractal Molossus
**
Posts: 678



« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2012, 11:27:50 PM »

@ Taurus: I can't believe I actually went through the motions of making a picture of my bathroom mirror to prove my point, but I did... If you look at the attached picture, you will see that the edge of the mirror is unsharp all around. The reflected picture is however razor sharp. If you would try to simulate this effect in M3D, you will have a sharp edge as well as a sharp reflected image.

(BTW, I can show you a much nicer picture of a droplet on the stem of one of my orchids than the wikipedia version, but as far as I can tell, there's a difference if your transparent object acts as a lens, so it doesn't prove my point as much as this picture  wink)


* Mirror.jpg (106.34 KB, 900x600 - viewed 476 times.)
Logged

All I want is a warm bed, a kind word and unlimited power (Ashleigh Brilliant)
taurus
Fractal Supremo
*****
Posts: 1175



profile.php?id=1339106810 @taurus_arts_66
WWW
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2012, 07:10:22 AM »

nice lesson in physical optics  wink
the mirror image is quite convincing and your argument about planes and lenses too... thx
 Cantor Dance
Logged

when life offers you a lemon, get yourself some salt and tequila!
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
which way up? (or down, for that matter) Mandelbulb3D Gallery ScruffyOne 0 313 Last post March 26, 2011, 09:01:54 PM
by ScruffyOne
Transparency in M3D? Mandelbulb 3d bib 9 2535 Last post October 16, 2011, 03:12:41 PM
by ant123
Checkbox for reflections on dIFS only (like transparency)? feature request 0Encrypted0 1 937 Last post July 13, 2012, 10:46:39 AM
by DarkBeam
It was only a matter of time. Meet & Greet P_B 6 387 Last post September 10, 2015, 02:40:39 AM
by P_B
Organic matter Images Showcase (Rate My Fractal) Caleidoscope 0 553 Last post December 30, 2015, 11:32:52 AM
by Caleidoscope

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS! Dilber MC Theme by HarzeM
Page created in 0.135 seconds with 29 queries. (Pretty URLs adds 0.008s, 2q)