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Author Topic: FRACTALFORUMS again going against fractals  (Read 2065 times)
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hgjf2
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« on: May 19, 2016, 07:53:51 AM »

I don't know why are more posting and every day at chapter "phylosophy" whick is about humanistick sciences, a domain what is wrong placed in FRACTALFORUMS.
 huh? crazy
Here might be only about mathematickal and physical. The hystory and the literature are domains enemy of maths.
The "phylosophy" chapter is like a "brother" for the chapter "non-fractal chit chat".
If at a forum contain too many postes at his off topic, mean that main domain of this forums don't work fine.
Would be pity that fractals to be out of bussiness.

 
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 08:05:26 AM by hgjf2 » Logged
TheRedshiftRider
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« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2016, 08:03:17 AM »

Fractals are not just about maths. They are patterns. If we recognise them in other things it is still a good thing to talk about, right? There might actually be mathematical rules which explain those patterns. Even in history, literature and other subjects that aren't directly connected to mathematics.
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cKleinhuis
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« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2016, 08:26:10 AM »

a small off topic section is ok, like redshifter stated, the huge underlying chaos theory is far far more than just numbers and pixels
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Chillheimer
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« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2016, 09:08:25 AM »

hi hgjf2..
Maybe it's due to a languiage barrier.. but if I understand you right, I absolutely oppose your opinion.
saying fractals are just about math is a very harmful view for the overall topic of fractals.
fractals are in my opinion "out of business" since the 80ies hype, because people focussed too much on just the pure math, forgetting how omnipresent they are in nature.
it's all because some  fiery decided that fractals have to be scale invariant to infinity! but this is not how our world works. this fixation upon infinity is abolut nonsense.

it is like saying we won't study geometric objects with 4 corners if they are not perfect squares. we'll just ignore them, as if they weren't there at all.
this is so limiting and has NO positive effect or good reason whatsoever!!  head banging wall

sorry for the strong words but I really loathe this approach and that this view has made it to dominate the study of fractals. And I'm, really sick of having to fight this view in just about any discussion regarding (less obvious) examples of fractals in nature. How about we focus on finding out why fractals are all around and what we can learn from that!

funny that you especially name "literature". Fractals are in there too.
Fractal patterns in history, major events are distributed pretty much according to zipfs law in a fractal hierarchy.

limiting the topic of fractals to mathematics (and trippy pictures) is the worst thing you can do for the advance in fractal studies.
I truly believe that this view has inhibited progress for mankind and science in a dramatic way.

there is no place more appropriate for these "off topic"-discussions than here!
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 09:35:09 AM by Chillheimer » Logged

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DarkBeam
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« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2016, 09:49:27 AM »

as long as people keeps on posting a forum is alive afro
forums are dinosaurs in fakebook age but sometimes they still shine. As long as people stays here fractals won't die - that's an ounce of philosophy wink
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Sockratease
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« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2016, 10:28:03 AM »

Look up "The Philosophy Of Math" to see how integrated the two topics really are!

Even things like Irrational Numbers sparked huge debates when first proposed.  It's rumored that Pythagorus actually murdered the man who first proposed them because they violated his truly religious belief in the Perfection of numbers.

If math were truly non-philosophical, colleges and universities would put it in their Science departments, but a Bachelor's Degree in Math is a Bachelor of Arts degree, not a Bachelor of Science degree.  That speaks volumes about Math and it's place in the world right there.

While you are welcome to your opinion, and we welcome your suggestions, this one stands zero chance of ever having any effect here.

And never forget - if a topic bothers you, you are under no obligation to read it!!  Just move on to those topics you find interesting and allow others to pursue the things which interest them   afro
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lycium
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« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2016, 10:56:32 AM »

I think we all know what hgjf2 is referring to, the pseudo-mathematical (if even that?) blahblah that decreases the signal-to-noise ratio here on FF, which I do think is detrimental to the forum and reinforces stereotypes about fractal people being a little kooky...

Having been on a number of forums over the years, the most long-lived and successful ones are the ones with high quality and signal-to-noise ratio.

Just my -3 cents...
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Chillheimer
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« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2016, 11:10:27 AM »

I think we all know what hgjf2 is referring to, the pseudo-mathematical (if even that?) blahblah that decreases the signal-to-noise ratio here on FF
no, I don't know what he is referring to.
would you mind giving us one or two examples?
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1Bryan1
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« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2016, 11:26:26 AM »

As a newbie - I see this forum as a place of mathematics discussions (that I cannot get into),  weird conversations (that I cannot understand more than 2 words of), software (downloadable goodies),  visual wonder (pictures that stun and videos that are WOW).

I habitually mark the first 2 as read without reading and the last two I delve into those that catch my eye.

All the above I see as Fractal related and not detracting from the intent of the forum.
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TheRedshiftRider
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« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2016, 11:48:00 AM »

I think we all know what hgjf2 is referring to, the pseudo-mathematical (if even that?) blahblah that decreases the signal-to-noise ratio here on FF, which I do think is detrimental to the forum and reinforces stereotypes about fractal people being a little kooky...

Having been on a number of forums over the years, the most long-lived and successful ones are the ones with high quality and signal-to-noise ratio.

Just my -3 cents...

I wouldn't describe it like noise when talking about FF, I guess we are talking about the variety of fractals the discussions about it. When ''filtering out the noise'' we simply focus on the discussions which we think are interesting.
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Sockratease
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« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2016, 10:39:55 PM »

I think we all know what hgjf2 is referring to, the pseudo-mathematical (if even that?) blahblah that decreases the signal-to-noise ratio here on FF, which I do think is detrimental to the forum and reinforces stereotypes about fractal people being a little kooky...

Having been on a number of forums over the years, the most long-lived and successful ones are the ones with high quality and signal-to-noise ratio.

Just my -3 cents...

If you're having troubles with signal to noise ratio I would suggest checking your internet connection!  That is a purely electrical problem and has nothing to do with any content posted here.

Although I must disagree that non-mathematical content is a problem.  It's a big part of what makes this site so special.  We strive to be welcoming to Mathematicians, Artists, Programmers, Philosophers, and even those Kooky Fractal People  (Personally, I find the the Kooky People to be my Favorite type of person - but to each their own).

This comes back to the fact that nobody is forcing anybody to take part in any discussion they find not to their tastes.

I have run many forums over the years and I have found that the most long-lived and successful ones are the ones with high quality and diversified content/discussions.  Who would think that one of the highest profile and longest lived Porn Forums would have an active Art section for members to display their stuff, Joke sections, AND a special "Dungeon" where people can argue all they want, using any language they want, with zero moderation  (except to be sure no illegal stuff goes on).

If you have any specific examples of what you mean by signal to noise problems, let's see some please.  I see nothing of the sort here.
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Max Sinister
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« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2016, 12:02:17 AM »

Yes, fractals have too many aspects to justify excluding certain groups.

@Chillheimer: Thanks for the literature link. So this is it. Some works are very fractal, others are not, and among both, you find many famous works of world literature...
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stardust4ever
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« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2016, 08:41:33 PM »

Fractals definitely exist as science math, art music, literature, and as both the domains of pure math as well as natural sciences. Sometimes things like the origin of the universe can spawn philosophical debates like the existence of God, etc, which may be best served in another forum, but the fact remains that fractals are deeply entrenched in the order from chaos of the universe. It is vastly empty space, as the scale from subatomic particle to atom, atom to cell, cell to organism, organism to planet, planet to solar system, solar systems to galaxies and so on out to the boundary of the known observable universe, which is only finite to the extent that we can only observe objects so distant that they existed shortly after the big bang.

These geometries of scale that exist in our universe also exist in biology, our knowledge of which so far is limited to organisms on this planet. Plant and animal tissue show amazing self similarity. The bronchial tubes and alvioli in our lungs are not so difference than the branches and leaves of a tree.

Humanities and arts, ranging from architecture and world road maps to population densities of cities, literature, especially music. Music consists of melodic beats and rythms, and you will find fractal like qualities from the cantor like repetitions of beats to the dispersal of harmonic frequencies of sound waves.

Fractals are everywhere in humanities, nature, and pure mathematics The laws of our universe are largely governed by math and physics, of which only recently we have begun to understand. So to find perfect fractal detail in a mathematical formula that correlates loosely to the imperfect fractals found in nature and out universe, is not surprising.

Full disclosure, I did not read the thread the OP mentioned, but if someone has a problem he or she should voice these concerns with the OP and not take it out on the site. My two cents.
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Max Sinister
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« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2016, 11:54:15 PM »

And things which aren't fractal tend to be quite simple and artificial. (Just a thought.)
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Sockratease
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« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2016, 01:34:19 AM »

...Full disclosure, I did not read the thread the OP mentioned ...

That's probably because the complaint, at least how it appeared to me, was about The Entire Philosophy Section here even existing at all!

Something so far removed from the very basic ideas this forum was founded on that it is not even going to be considered as a possibility.
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