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Author Topic: A bug in the 3D navigator ?  (Read 2263 times)
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PhotoComix
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« on: March 29, 2012, 08:10:33 AM »

i tried to tweak a fractal recently posted ("Monument"..see http://www.fractalforums.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=10346 and http://www.fractalforums.com/gallery/monument-ii/) and i was very surprised to see how much what displayed from the 3D navigator diverge from the final result

And even more weird display the opposite:
here i must explain better i was trying to make the structure surrounding the bug more thick and complex and from the navigator i was successful
BUT instead in  the final render happened the oppsite, more i made the structure thick and elaborate in the 3D navigator more it was semplified and slimmed down in the final render

Even more strange for me , looking well a couple of my render showed a sort of very vague ghost of what was in the 3D navigator

time for the screenshot to explain better of what i may do with words


M3D bug by PhotoComix_Mandala, on Flickr


M3D bug by PhotoComix_Mandala, on Flickr


M3D bug by PhotoComix_Mandala, on Flickr


this never happened before with other fractal at least not wit the same intensity

About the "ghosts" of what shold be,were too ghostly  to be visible in the screenshots but are visible in the image i zipped with their parameters here

EDIT: link fixed

http://www.deviantart.com/download/292892626/egg_by_photocomix2-d4udpea.zip
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 09:47:01 AM by PhotoComix » Logged
bib
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« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2012, 09:45:02 AM »

There have always been differences between the navi and the main view, I am not sure if we can really call that a bug. Personally I have learned to live with it... Try to increase DE stop to make the structures thicker.
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Between order and disorder reigns a delicious moment. (Paul ValÚry)
PhotoComix
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« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2012, 09:52:26 AM »

I know there are differences that can't be avoided in a simplified vision

but in the case of the 2nd screenshoot the render and the nav view seems diverge too much:

the more the 3d nav show the structure getting thicker and complex the more was simplified and slimmed in the final render

but thank a lot on the tip on the DE stop, looks really as a useful tip
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dainbramage
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« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2012, 07:24:13 PM »

In the second screenshot, after achieving the view in the navi did you click "View to Main" before rendering?  I've never seen that much variation between the navi and the render, so I'm wondering if you actually rendered an earlier state.
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Madman
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« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2012, 08:25:36 PM »

Both DE-stop and the size of your image have an influence on the "thickness" of your structures. If you increase the image size at the same DE, your structures will go thinner. If you increase the DE at the same image size, your structures will become thicker. With the navigator the image size increase is close to 6 times, so that's why your navigator looks plump in comparison to the final image.
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PhotoComix
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« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2012, 12:18:17 AM »

In the second screenshot, after achieving the view in the navi did you click "View to Main" before rendering?  I've never seen that much variation between the navi and the render, so I'm wondering if you actually rendered an earlier state.

yes sure i did
and i posted the zip with the parameters because i was surprised as you is the first time i noticed a so wide difference

@Madman
I am just back home i will try to increase the DE stop anyway the problem was not only of thickness a whole part of the structure very well visible in the Nav just went MIA
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Jesse
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« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2012, 08:48:07 PM »

This is really no bug, only a behaviour of many fractals that structures will disappear if you increase the iterations and bailout will be reached.
It appears mostly with linear scalings of 2 and more like in IFS formulas.

You can still see in the big image the dynamic fog "ghost" structures of these structs, it means that the distance estimates are still lower in these regions, but not low enough (beyond DEstop value) so the raymarch stops.

The navi's Destop value is clipped to values above 0.5 or so, to make rendering not that slow.  But if you navigate toward the object you might see also the structs disappearing.

Navigator is for navigating  smiley

Ok, also for parameter adjustments since some releases...
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PhotoComix
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« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2012, 12:35:19 AM »

Quote
  But if you navigate toward the object you might see also the structs disappearing.

Ahh...that was another things that made me crazy...spot a interesting object zoom in to get it and see that more i zoom  more it vanish.

I suppose i must read again the read me included i was hoping that increase the iteration would help to...materialize this type of vanishing structure but from your words i see is the opposite

I must print that read me i noticed that is a quite exaustive but somehow i found hard read it on my PC, i concentrate better when i read something printed.

well may be the occasion to contribute with a PDF version with screenshoots (no promises but from now is in my to do list )
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Mrz00m
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« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2012, 02:31:05 PM »

my main stickin point in the navigator, is that if you change setings and find a structure occluding the middle of the navigator, it won't zoom or go anywhere because the occlusion produces a bug whereby the navigator things it has to stay in the same spot. like you know when you turn aound and go forwards and it stays stuck in the middle of a boundary.
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bib
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« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2012, 02:58:45 PM »

my main stickin point in the navigator, is that if you change setings and find a structure occluding the middle of the navigator, it won't zoom or go anywhere because the occlusion produces a bug whereby the navigator things it has to stay in the same spot. like you know when you turn aound and go forwards and it stays stuck in the middle of a boundary.

This is not a bug. Tick the "Fixed zoom and steps" checkbox to pass through the structure.
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Mrz00m
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« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2012, 04:15:48 PM »

This is not a bug. Tick the "Fixed zoom and steps" checkbox to pass through the structure.
OMG! thanks!
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