Logo by Pauldelbrot - Contribute your own Logo!

END OF AN ERA, FRACTALFORUMS.COM IS CONTINUED ON FRACTALFORUMS.ORG

it was a great time but no longer maintainable by c.Kleinhuis contact him for any data retrieval,
thanks and see you perhaps in 10 years again

this forum will stay online for reference
News: Visit the official fractalforums.com Youtube Channel
 
*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register. February 21, 2019, 05:57:22 PM


Login with username, password and session length


The All New FractalForums is now in Public Beta Testing! Visit FractalForums.org and check it out!


Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Down
  Print  
Share this topic on DiggShare this topic on FacebookShare this topic on GoogleShare this topic on RedditShare this topic on StumbleUponShare this topic on Twitter
Author Topic: My initial ideas for continued development to MB3D  (Read 5301 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
thargor6
Fractal Molossus
**
Posts: 789



WWW
« on: March 29, 2015, 04:55:24 AM »

Hi all,
I have been criticized to not already outlined a bunch of ideas how to contribute to the MB3D-project and not have been proved my "coding chops" yet cheesy

Okay, to be honest, I have MUCH underestimated the tension of all of this. There is much of expectation here, and I can also feel some level of anger and frustration.
When I see how long nothing happened, I can understand some of this. But please also understand me, I'm now about 2-3 weeks involved into this at all.


However, of course I have ideas, and I even heard the usual "stop here"-comments, because I sometimes tend to "revolutionize" too much ;-)
I have the following three concrete ideas:
1. Increase the number of formulas and params for formulas. I have spoken about this with our formula-inventor Luca, and he had some good arguments for this.
2. Create more bokeh options (this is my own idea I have not spoken about with others, yet)
3. Create an interface, where users can create formulas (without much coding involved, especially not ASM). From my experience users love such an ability a lot. And I heard already many voices, that this would be even more true for MB3D.

An additional, yet vague idea, is to create a new interface, as this is my primary strength. But, I know that many people like the current interface, so I'm thinking about a new optional interface (i. e. you can switch between new and classic). My goal would be to have anything related to design one single fractal into one window.

I also saw already some of the many feature-requests here, and think many, can be done. But two of them not:
 - true 64Bit version: very hard, because of the current code-base, probably needs a complete rewrite
 - GPU-renderer: does not really make sense in the current environment (Delphi/ASM). It would make more sense to rewrite from scratch, but then it would be even make more senso to contribute to Mandelbulber/Fragmentarium


Any further suggestions are welcome, of course.

Andreas
Logged
LMarkoya
Strange Attractor
***
Posts: 282



« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2015, 05:52:03 AM »

Sounds great Andreas, I second the request for a mutagen system
Logged
laser blaster
Iterator
*
Posts: 178


« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2015, 08:11:16 AM »

I also saw already some of the many feature-requests here, and think many, can be done. But two of them not:
 - true 64Bit version: very hard, because of the current code-base, probably needs a complete rewrite
 - GPU-renderer: does not really make sense in the current environment (Delphi/ASM). It would make more sense to rewrite from scratch, but then it would be even make more senso to contribute to Mandelbulber/Fragmentarium.
If that's the case, then why not contribute to Mandelbulber, or Fragmentarium? To me, it doesn't make a lot of sense to work on an unwieldy codebase that will need to be scrapped or rewritten at some point in the future anyway. Is the interface the main reason why people prefer MB3D to other programs? Because, if that's the case, then it may make more sense in the long run to create an all-new "clone"of MB3D, with a similar interface, and with optional GPU rendering to offer even faster speeds.
Logged
DarkBeam
Global Moderator
Fractal Senior
******
Posts: 2512


Fragments of the fractal -like the tip of it


« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2015, 08:22:12 AM »

But the idea and concepts started as a short term project smiley
Logged

No sweat, guardian of wisdom!
cKleinhuis
Administrator
Fractal Senior
*******
Posts: 7044


formerly known as 'Trifox'


WWW
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2015, 12:07:55 PM »

@thargor all the best for your ambitious plans!

if you have a real concept for bringing in formula nodes or something, try that but i believe its harder than you might think, because the rendering pipeline is optimised for this, but perhaps you can implement an gpu rendering pipeline, but doing with delphi ... humm ... tricky i think wink

in my eyes the approach of mandelbulber is the way to go, they already have implemented an gpu based distance estimation module, getting this to be importable by mb3d (because of the more intuitive hybridisation ) would be great but i think it would be more than a year of hard work

at the beggining i would suggest sticking to minor adjustments like more formulas, and a more intuitive formula order editor like one postet here, to be able to swap formulas instead of shifting would already be a great improvement

as well to include totally new formula types like pre-post transforms wink

but whatever you do do it with fun! i personally underestimated how big the mandelbulb3d crowd is today, we had like 3000 direct downloads on a single day when luca posted the last formula collection with mb3d
Logged

---

divide and conquer - iterate and rule - chaos is No random!
Madman
Fractal Molossus
**
Posts: 678



« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2015, 06:16:35 PM »

Very nice to hear your challenging plans Andreas! Hats off to you for picking up the development of M3D!! I hope you will not be discouraged by some of the, in my view totally uncalled for, comments from some forum members and will be able to put your ideas to work. I'm sure to silent majority supports your efforts completely and will embrace every new version you will produce! I know I will  grin

I love the idea of adding bokeh. Maybe you can also have a look at increasing the "reality-feel" of the FOV settings? If it's not asking too much...  embarrass Everything in your own time of course  wink

Thank you for picking this up Andreas!
Logged

All I want is a warm bed, a kind word and unlimited power (Ashleigh Brilliant)
bib
Global Moderator
Fractal Senior
******
Posts: 2070


At the borders...


100008697663777 @bib993
WWW
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2015, 07:18:22 PM »

My goal would be to have anything related to design one single fractal into one window.

Good idea. switching back and forth all the time between the main window and the navi would make the workflow much easier.
Logged

Between order and disorder reigns a delicious moment. (Paul ValÚry)
0Encrypted0
Fractal Fertilizer
*****
Posts: 384



WWW
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2015, 09:38:39 PM »

An additional, yet vague idea, is to create a new interface, as this is my primary strength. But, I know that many people like the current interface, so I'm thinking about a new optional interface (i. e. you can switch between new and classic). My goal would be to have anything related to design one single fractal into one window.

The "3D Navi" (Navigator) has evolved over time to add numerous controls.
People still keep asking to add this or that extra item to the "Navi".
It actually makes more sense for the Navigator to be the main interface with all the controls except Post Processing.
Like the current Monte Carlo render window, the Render would be in a second window or tab containing the Post Processing controls as well as duplicate Lighting controls .

One thing to keep in mind is the ability for the user to resize the real time Navigator screen smaller for slower/older computers.

Also, I would like to see Mandelbulb 3D kept fully portable without external dependencies.
Do you think this will be possible or will you be using Java Runtime?
Logged
3dickulus
Global Moderator
Fractal Senior
******
Posts: 1558



WWW
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2015, 09:40:12 PM »

5 cents wink

a quick google returns some REALLY interesting things that may be...

...of interest...
http://www.clootie.ru/Projects/nvidia_cg.html

...important?...
https://code.google.com/p/delphi-shader/
Quote
4. A program that converts GLSL code to Delphi code.
Logged

Resistance is fertile...
You will be illuminated!

                            #B^] https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Fractals/fragmentarium
lenord
Fractal Bachius
*
Posts: 611


No Matter where you go there you are


« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2015, 09:44:51 PM »

Mutation generation may be interesting, hate the idea of changing the UIF though but if it's selectable guess it's OK. The UIF, speed of render and the Navigator are the big drawing points for MB3d, the convoluted UIF on Bulber and no Navigator not to mention the Render speed are the reasons it never took off like MB3D.  Developing my own formulas are of no interest to me but I know a lot of people would like to which is fine to have that capability. I was thinking a couple of more Lights available would be useful sometimes and maybe a scaler on the Lightmap function like there is on the Surface Map, just a thought.....also in DE Combinate Mode the capability of combining 2 Hybrids instead only one formula with a Hybrid also in DE Combinate Mode adding a couple more formula slots for that Mode. In the Post Processing there is the option of calculating Transparency on d.IFS components only, that option would be extremely handy to have on Reflections also, that's one option I would dearly love to see. These are just my thoughts off the top of my head anything you come up with Andreas we all will be glad to try and be happy for.
Logged
bib
Global Moderator
Fractal Senior
******
Posts: 2070


At the borders...


100008697663777 @bib993
WWW
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2015, 09:53:24 PM »

...also in DE Combinate Mode the capability of combining 2 Hybrids instead only one formula with a Hybrid
You can do that already. In DE Combinate mode you have a counter that appears and allows to select at which slot starts the 2nd hybrid.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2015, 09:55:37 PM by bib » Logged

Between order and disorder reigns a delicious moment. (Paul ValÚry)
lenord
Fractal Bachius
*
Posts: 611


No Matter where you go there you are


« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2015, 10:12:04 PM »

You can do that already. In DE Combinate mode you have a counter that appears and allows to select at which slot starts the 2nd hybrid.

I thought that only designated where the calculations for the second part of the Combinate started you can still only have one formula in Part one not a 3 formula Hybrid and another 3 formula hybrid....or have I been looking at that wrong all this time......
Logged
thargor6
Fractal Molossus
**
Posts: 789



WWW
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2015, 10:24:12 PM »

Also, I would like to see Mandelbulb 3D kept fully portable without external dependencies.
Do you think this will be possible or will you be using Java Runtime?
This (the first) is also my plan, but I think I will utilize a (free) library which offers more/improved UI-controls.
Java will not be involved at all.
Logged
bib
Global Moderator
Fractal Senior
******
Posts: 2070


At the borders...


100008697663777 @bib993
WWW
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2015, 10:27:27 PM »

I thought that only designated where the calculations for the second part of the Combinate started you can still only have one formula in Part one not a 3 formula Hybrid and another 3 formula hybrid....or have I been looking at that wrong all this time......
Try that!
Mandelbulb3Dv18{
g.....S....O/...w....2....UI8bZW0Fw..vflouuR5q1Enkzd96a2YwXP7ms3oA8xzKslPr8Q.WzD
........................................kz1........Y./..................y.2...wD
...Uz6....U0..../MU//.....kq....K/....E3.....omEQgisq6rD/..........m/dkpXm1....U
z.....kD12../..........wz.................................U0.....y1...sD...../..
.z1...sDolFZd9iBmx1..........KzJxr2fLrdjgAZeBnNCHuHP4fJZymxOzslPySyorRqDPaV0iHmo
KuHDcNPuHTrNzayP2AdjQjqDU.....Y6..............sD.6....sD..G.....................
.............oAnAt1...sD....z...........................................8....k1.
.....Ksulz1.......kz.wzzz1.U..6.P....U5...EB....m....c3....F....6/...I1.....SF52
...U.qFG9yzb2zzzRYoWzz7lz16.pc..zXCc..kvrEtMc7xD6ocyFE0ujz1..........2.28.kFrA0.
.Ub96aAIVz9.1se7Umvxz0........../EU0.wzzz1...........s/...................E.2c..
zzzz.............0...................2./8.kzzzD............8....................
/EU0.wzzz1...................................2CcN/UvNPcveeWCNq0.yRiibHJJUk1f..XR
SvBmx3CcN/UvNPcvQsLsUa3.ibhVi1bTV1OK.sSq4uCly3CcN/UvNPcvMwLsUa3.ibhVinqTV1OK.sSq
4uCkz3CcN/UvNPcv..EsUa3feeWCNqGQIJ36wk8EwyLsUa3f................................
E6...EE.m6E..........6....EGiFLNbJaQU.pPrJaQ.........................c..........
...................6./........zj................................................
................................................................................
.....................2.....3....8....AJOZ75QdtqQfZqA............................
.....MU/4MU/4..................E........kz1........wz.........zD................
................................................................................
................................/....E/....0....TFZQVtqQaxaQh/..................
................3IE/0MU/A...............ozXaNaNaNaNwz0..........................
...................................wz...........................................
..........................................E.....I....c....EHZtqNZ7rA............
..........................U/4MU/4M.1...............0./........zD........kz1.....
...wz...........................................................................
........................................................}
{Titel: main paras~}
Logged

Between order and disorder reigns a delicious moment. (Paul ValÚry)
lenord
Fractal Bachius
*
Posts: 611


No Matter where you go there you are


« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2015, 10:41:19 PM »

Yep your right I was just doing some experimenting too and it works. Don't know how I misinterpreted that all this time...I'd blame old age but it's more than likely the Weed... opens a whole new area for me, okiedoke scratch that it always has been able to do that...Thanks bib I appreciate that
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Down
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
initial messingabout with the new 'folding integer' formula in mandelbulb3d 1.4 Images Showcase (Rate My Fractal) kaini 4 1494 Last post April 14, 2010, 11:14:54 AM
by hyperben2
fractalforums.com online shop - initial set up! Fractal Forums News cKleinhuis 0 674 Last post December 25, 2012, 12:44:32 AM
by cKleinhuis
Fractal classification continued (new) Theories & Research Tglad 2 325 Last post September 03, 2013, 12:48:06 PM
by Tglad
Mandelbulb 3d Development Officially Continued (beta is out) Mandelbulb 3d « 1 2 3 » thargor6 43 6974 Last post June 24, 2015, 05:02:13 PM
by jotero

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS! Dilber MC Theme by HarzeM
Page created in 0.135 seconds with 29 queries. (Pretty URLs adds 0.01s, 2q)