News: Visit UltraFractalWiki for hints & tutorials on UltraFractal5
 
*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register. October 21, 2014, 10:44:05 AM


Login with username, password and session length



Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down
  Print  
Share this topic on DiggShare this topic on FacebookShare this topic on GoogleShare this topic on RedditShare this topic on StumbleUponShare this topic on Twitter
Author Topic: Implementation: 3D mandelbrot type fractal  (Read 17214 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
KRAFTWERK
Fractal Supremo
*****
Posts: 1164


Virtual Surreality


WWW
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2010, 04:47:32 PM »

Hi and sorry if I'm interrupting a specific project here.  This is something different.  I've been having a dialogue principally with Jehovajah in "...search for the holy grail continues..." section, and am convinced there is an implementation problem for one approach to M in extended Dims.  I'd love to get more to look at the ideas I'm trying to communicate there. Taken together, the messages I left are enough to duplicate my 2-d results and judge whether a 3-d generator for it exists or can be written easily.  My comments begin on page 12 and continue to the present.  Would love to show some pix, make a paper available, and provide my formula files for this in FractInt.  Someone please advise.

You should try Subblues pixelbender-script (that is the renderer I use).
It is possible to change the formulas in the script, so you might be able to implement your new formulas in it.
Pixelbender is a free Adobe-app (Win&Mac), you can download it here:
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/pixelbender/

Subblues script for it is here:
http://www.subblue.com/projects/mandelbulb

I hope this helps!

J
Logged

Fractalis Surrealis: http://mandelwerk.deviantart.com/gallery/28152444
And my 3.3 GIGA PIXEL zoomable mandelbulb: http://mandelwerk.com/
fracmonk
Fractal Fertilizer
*****
Posts: 356


« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2010, 08:24:59 PM »

K- Wow, so fast!  Not used to that.  If I could upload the stuff mentioned, you'd see it's no more complicated than the math principles that gave us complex nos. in the first place. (Honest!) But I do need to do that still.  I'm a babe in the woods when it comes to telecommunications, oddly enuf, so I need that kind of patience!  Anyway, don't know if I'm missing something, but I haven't found anything in "help" here about how to do that.  Thanx!

Didn't realize this thread spilled onto a second page already.  Went to pixel bender, and it's like learning another language, "easier than C++", but it looks nearly as involved.  In the bad old days, I did this stuff in BASIC.  Miserably slow by today's standards.  If I was to invest that kind of time, + I think I will eventually have to break down and do that, I'd go to C++ for versatility in other areas.  Still, I see the results.  Neat!  Another issue w me is having witnessed the evolution of fractal art obscuring the basic math for those inclined to understand it.  I would never ever do that, having been too frustrated over the years w people who seem to go out of their way to make things hard to grasp.  It may be formality, but it presents hurdles unnecessarily, in my humble opinion.  If something could be made plainer, it ought to be.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 08:43:01 PM by fracmonk, Reason: more » Logged
KRAFTWERK
Fractal Supremo
*****
Posts: 1164


Virtual Surreality


WWW
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2010, 08:48:57 AM »

Going a bit off topic here I guess... But I share your interest in the basics of fractals, the plain mandelbrot set is for me far more beautiful than much of the "fractal art" some people call fractal...

That is why I try to do plain mandelbulbs (with some experimental exceptions wink ) And look forward to the next step closer to the "real" 3D mandelbrot.

Keep on searching fracmonk! I hope you find a tool that suits you, I'd love to see some renderings!
Logged

Fractalis Surrealis: http://mandelwerk.deviantart.com/gallery/28152444
And my 3.3 GIGA PIXEL zoomable mandelbulb: http://mandelwerk.com/
fracmonk
Fractal Fertilizer
*****
Posts: 356


« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2010, 02:37:32 PM »

K- I can't see how it's off-topic at all.  As far as I can see, this is the basic M in an extension environment that is meaningful to both the mathematics of complex numbers and the the famous function we have come to love.  That 2-d slice that Dr. M came up with circa 1980 just happens to have its characteristics because the set of complex nos. is the smallest CLOSED set of 2^n dimensions (n being a pos integer).  But we can look at it from other helpful points of view.  My "grail" has been to provide new insights for others with greater skill and understanding of the MLC conjecture and the very concept of local connectedness than I have.  From what I've read, even Dr. M himself has trouble with the distinction between M's simple connectedness and the possibility of its local connectedness.  I must leave it to people who have reason to believe they have a deeper grasp of the topological distinction, if any truly exists.

Now THAT's off-topic!  But it's still relevant, as mathematics is supposed to seek truth.

ON topic: So far, the .frm file for FractInt I left in the "grail" thread is a good 2-d implementation, and if no existing prog can display it in more dims, one would have to be made.  (If it means that much to anyone- I think it's important in ways others don't yet see) Give that paper a read, and you'll see what I mean.  To understand the underlying math is well worth the effort.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2010, 12:56:25 PM by fracmonk, Reason: fix itses, etc » Logged
fracmonk
Fractal Fertilizer
*****
Posts: 356


« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2010, 01:14:51 PM »

Having the luxury currently to look around a little bit, if implementation means finer points of using existing progs, this deal should move to "programming" section properly.  Yes?  No?

Still think it's worthy of more eyes upon it.  Also, I might add that proper overviews of a multidimensional object require enormous numbers of pictures (for instance, 4 x 3-d ANIMATIONS with undisplayed 4th dimension as the frame-by-frame (time increments) in this 4-d case) to do them justice, and I don't want to hog space, even w 2-d renderings.  Besides, d.i.y. is very fulfilling.  "Use the formula file, Luke!" said Obi... (before anyone jumps to conclusions, I'm not a big StarWars fan, but the quote seemed fitting)  Be well!
« Last Edit: June 02, 2010, 02:02:50 PM by fracmonk » Logged
KRAFTWERK
Fractal Supremo
*****
Posts: 1164


Virtual Surreality


WWW
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2010, 01:19:01 PM »

(for instance, 4 x 3-d ANIMATIONS with undisplayed 4th dimension as the frame-by-frame (time increments) in this 4-d case) to do them justice...

That sounds inqredible interesting, I hope someone here with the knowledge will do that some day!

I downloaded your paper, will see if I can grasp it...   afro
Logged

Fractalis Surrealis: http://mandelwerk.deviantart.com/gallery/28152444
And my 3.3 GIGA PIXEL zoomable mandelbulb: http://mandelwerk.com/
fracmonk
Fractal Fertilizer
*****
Posts: 356


« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2010, 03:24:18 AM »

K- Happy to hear that.  Please critique on clarity if you will.  I wanted it to be as easy to follow as possible.  Thanx!  And of course, if you need further explanation, there are no stupid questions...


* 2of4Daxb.GIF (9.71 KB, 320x200 - viewed 977 times.)

* 2of4Daxd.GIF (8.61 KB, 320x200 - viewed 978 times.)

* 2of4Daxc.GIF (8.94 KB, 320x200 - viewed 958 times.)
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 03:31:22 AM by fracmonk » Logged
fracmonk
Fractal Fertilizer
*****
Posts: 356


« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2010, 03:36:30 AM »

Here are 2-d's with other two dims=0 as basics which would call up the right formula files in FractInt to zoom or change param settings, here and in the previous post (modified, and if it works...)

In last post, the first will be very familiar.  The rest will recombine dimensions, this one w that one, taking turns.  With 4-d objects, taking turns is the thing, since it's just not visible all at once, or displayable all at once, but curiously, all dimensions can be combined seamlessly just the same (as long as they...take their turns...)  At first glance, not terribly exciting, but you 3-d ray-tracer types can cure all that!


* 2of4Dbxc.GIF (11.55 KB, 320x200 - viewed 966 times.)

* 2of4Dbxd.GIF (8.01 KB, 320x200 - viewed 962 times.)

* 2of4Dcxd.GIF (7.53 KB, 320x200 - viewed 970 times.)
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 03:48:37 AM by fracmonk, Reason: explain attachmts » Logged
fracmonk
Fractal Fertilizer
*****
Posts: 356


« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2010, 12:43:20 PM »

I may have misled some of you w the last 2 posts a bit.  The pix need the .frm file that made them, which can be found in the "search for the holy grail continues" thread.  It must be present to do any changes to them.  Sorry if I caused any undue frustration.

There was a glitch in the code that made these, found only yesterday (11-11-10).  The correct code for the right images, a bit different, can be found at post 251 in the aforementioned thread.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2010, 05:18:15 PM by fracmonk » Logged
jehovajah
Global Moderator
Fractal Senior
******
Posts: 2014


May a trochoid in the void bring you peace


WWW
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2010, 09:13:27 AM »

@Fracmonk, now i see your pics i am fairly convinced that Quasz has it right. When i get time i will render the variation using the k unit vector to see if it matches the other 3 images you have produced.

The problem as always is one of perspective and technique and settings. The 3d view has to make certain assumption to compute a surface,and then to colour it. David Makin i am sure can take you through the theory of that, but it means that an object can look very different in renders with different settings: thus the mandelbrotp settings are closer to what you are getting than the mandelbrot settings, in Quasz that is. Good luck and good fortune!
Logged

May a trochoid of ¥h¶h iteratively entrain your Logos Response transforming into iridescent fractals of orgasmic delight and joy, with kindness, peace and gratitude at all scales within your experience. I beg of you to enrich others as you have been enriched, in vorticose pulsations of extravagance!
fracmonk
Fractal Fertilizer
*****
Posts: 356


« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2010, 06:42:00 PM »

J- Kinda heard that before, but never saw a silhouette that matched unequivocally yet.  Saw some slick (OK, really slick) pix in gallery showing very impressive 3d stuff- lighting, colors, intonations, etc.  I'm afraid most are too hypnotized with polish to pay much attention to the math anymore.  I mentioned at the "grail" thread how i'd kinda like to see someone try it my way, duplicate my results, and do their own survey in 2-d before evaluating whether QuasZ can really do it.  If it could, I'd buy it!  But to be honest, in a perfect world, the math behind these pix should have showed up before quaternions did.  The world, however, is never that way, is it? 
Logged
Alef
Fractal Schemer
****
Posts: 1007



WWW
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2011, 04:27:52 PM »

Well, continiuing with http://www.fractalforums.com/3d-fractal-generation/true-3d-mandlebrot-type-fractal/ I was trying to implement true mandelbrot in 3D.

I think, mandelbrot set is generated becouse in complex numbers x^2 = real^2 >< y^2 = i^2. So mandelbrot set is property of numbers themselves and not of the simple formula z=z^2+c.

In quaternion numbers still x^2 >< y^2. But I think z^2 = j^2     =    y^2 = i^2. So correct z^2  allways will be eather x^2 or y^2 or n*y^2. Square have just two posibilities + or -. So by having equal values at z and y axis it generate rotation surface. Unless numbers are being manipulated so that x >< y >< z wink

But if you iterate:
z= quaternion ( real(z) , imag(z), part_j(z)+ part_k(z), part_k(z) - part_j(z) );
z= z*z+C;

It still have features of rotation surface / being extruded but it gained fractal features in z axis and zooming in reveals more features. In 2D it generates unaltered mandelbrot set. j+k and k-j are just try and error...

However, there would be matematicaly corect 3D Mandelbrot set, probably it woun't reveal so nice images as mandelbulbs, since tentacles would go in all direction, creating chaos;)


* 3Dmandelbrot_zoomedin.jpg (197.83 KB, 800x600 - viewed 297 times.)

* 3D_mandelbrot_manipulated.jpg (74.89 KB, 600x467 - viewed 291 times.)
Logged

P.E.A.C.H. - please examine and critique honestly.
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
True 3D mandelbrot type fractal 3D Fractal Generation « 1 2 ... 36 37 » twinbee 551 278192 Last post November 19, 2009, 11:56:16 PM
by cKleinhuis
Moved: True 3D mandelbrot Implementation Mandelbulb Implementation Geometrian 6 3254 Last post November 20, 2009, 01:55:21 PM
by mattiasFagerlund
Re: True 3D mandelbrot type fractal Mandelbulb Software shanest 2 8154 Last post November 20, 2009, 03:24:26 AM
by fractalrebel
New fractal type... latest 3d type.. a z^2 for Benoit Images Showcase (Rate My Fractal) M Benesi 0 1754 Last post October 21, 2010, 07:14:00 AM
by M Benesi
Another (?) 3D mandelbrot type Theory Tater 0 306 Last post January 28, 2013, 10:47:15 PM
by Tater

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines

Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS! Dilber MC Theme by HarzeM
Page created in 0.796 seconds with 30 queries. (Pretty URLs adds 0.04s, 2q)